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The lesson from GoT is as long as you have good source material, you shouldn't rush production AgentApple Send a noteboard - 27/06/2019 12:02:59 PM

I think we all agree the first books have the best material. If the series is to be successful in the long run, it will be because each individual season was good. Get into the nuts and bolts of the world building because that's what people like.
I've never been a casual fan of GoT but I suspect even those like the little details which make the world come alive, even if they don't necessarily appreciate it consciously.

Another lesson: If you have bad source material, or just a skeleton of unpublished books, turn it to better material. But still don't rush production.


View original postWhat's drawing them, I believe, is the simple and formulaic initial journey. It has horror elements, but not a whole lot of fantasy stuff from the get-go. A lot depends on how many episodes per season and stuff like that. If they are going twelve:


View original post1 - LTT opening, Rand sees Myrdraal, Emond's Field intro, ending with Narg attack


View original post2 - Rand kills Narg brings Tam in, Moiraine yells at mob, takes kids


View original post3 - Ferry & Baerlon, meet Min, Baalzamon dream, fire, flee


View original post4 - Trolloc pursuit, Shadar Logoth


View original post5 - Boys on boat, Perrin & Egwene meet Elyas


View original post6 - Tinkers, Whitebridge


View original post7 - Rand & Mat on road, Perrin & Egwene fleeing ravens, Moiraine talks about Power to Nynaeve


View original post8 - Whitecloaks, Four Kings






View original post11 - Fal Dara & Blight


View original post12 - Eye of the World & Forsaken


View original postIf they are only doing ten episodes, like Game of Thrones, maybe cut the stuff in Caemlyn & save Rand/Elayne meet for Falme or Tear, meet Loial in the abandoned stedding, go back to find him, to be guided through the Ways, and cut out the Tinkers & the ride on Domon's boat.


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View original postShortened: Faile being taken prisoner by the Shaido, Internal Black Tower power grab
Those were not nearly as long as people think they were. Faile's adventure is fairly cinematic & not really expensive, I wouldn't think, since it's a prison drama with romance novel elements. The character development was important for Perrin, too. That's how he stops being a dilettante and starts taking leadership & command responsibilities seriously. By that point in the series, a lot is going to depend on how successful it is, and how many seasons are likely to be budgeted. Also, the reception of the actors could be an issue. There were a lot of creative decisions in Game of Thrones that were clearly based on retaining certain actors. Alfie Allen, Lena Headey & Diana Rigg most notably.


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Cut Completely: Elayne securing the Lion Throne, Anything to do with Luca and the Circus, Country/Kingdom internal political struggles, Boarderland Rulers leaving the north, The Ogier


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I'm sure there's more...it has been years since I've read wot. Much of the shortened or cut story lines can be accomplished off screen or hinted at without devoting major resources.








View original postI don't know. The thing about parts the more shallow fans reviled because "nothing happens" were the sort of dialogue-heavy stuff that prestige dramas love. They just have to re-work some of the dialogue so it's not as much of an internal conflict for Elayne, and more about the dangers & mystery tensions. It's not a big chunk of screen-time and probably not very expensive to shoot, either. That stuff will probably depend on the actress they get for Elayne and if she can carry being the lead in that plotline.


View original postLook at how that actually goes. In Winter's Heart:


View original post- meeting where Elayne announces her military goals to Birgitte & Dyeline, and Taim arrives.


View original post- adoption ceremony.


View original post- Birgitte telling Elayne about her imprisoned rivals disappearing, and her analysis of the situation which establishes the stakes of the conflict.


View original post- meeting with Norry where she demonstrates her political chops and gets the news about funding, which ends with her lunch & forkroot poisoning


View original post- after-action report where it's determined she'll get a bodyguard.


View original post- the Rand thing.


View original post- Meetings & first pregnancy issues, ending with Merilille's arrival


View original post- Meeting the rulers & returning to find the city under attack


View original postThat's one scene per episode over the course of a season. During this time, Rand is not doing much. He has his meeting with Dobraine & Idrien in the school to establish that he's on the run and laying false trails, and then arrives in Caemlyn for the encounter with Elayne & Aviendha, then the fight with the renegades in Far Madding, Cadsuane in Far Madding, Verin then the fight with Fain & his imprisonment. Then the Cleansing. That's seven scenes. Mat is mostly plotting his getaway from Ebou Dar, with little action after the initial gholam fight. Egwene only appears in dream meetings and Perrin begins his search for Faile. Elayne's arc might have to CARRY that season. Or maybe they could condense WH & CoT into one season. Elayne's arc is even more streamlined in the latter. You could break it up over a pair of episodes. Rand doesn't do much, Perrin finds Malden, and goes to buy grain, Mat travels a relatively short distance and gets to know Tuon, Egwene has a few meetings and gets captured changing the harbor chain. Faile washes silk.


View original postThe stuff I think will get trimmed is the peripheral stuff, rather than actual plotlines or stories. Maybe the flipside of the White Tower conflict, the stuff with Elaida's divisions, Alviarin and the Black Ajah hunters. They'd probably simplify Egwene's side of the struggle down to Romanda's faction & Lelaine's opposing her, rather than deal with the issues and concerns of the rebels. Given the lack of payoff, thanks to Sanderson, that stuff becomes pretty unnecessary in hindsight. They can trim a lot of Elayne's long-term concerns that Sanderson similarly failed to address, including the whole issue of the throne of Cairhien, or the balance of power and factions in the Andoran civil war, just simplify it to Arymilla and a bunch of undecideds who are sitting on the fence and afraid of the Tower and the Dragon and not wanting to commit to one side or another and get in trouble with the external powers. Then Elayne "wins" when she captures Arymilla.


View original post"Game of Thrones" chopped out a lot of plots and "side" characters, only to be hurt by the lack and left with an unresolvable mess in the final season. When Season 5 came with Tyrion going right to Dany without any Aegon detours or Quentyn Martell, everyone probably thought that was smart. But then we got the dumpster fire of the actual Dornish plotline in that year which turned out to have no external effect, and when Dany & co landed in Westeros, they were only facing Cersei, whom the previous story had made us certain should not put up any real fight at all, only to last right down to the wire. That's probably because the Dornish are going to team up with Aegon to take out Cersei and Dany will have to fight a popular male liberator with a better claim, already on the Iron Throne.


View original postI suppose you could excise Elayne altogether. And Aviendha, for that matter. But that could adversely affect the personal stakes of Rand's issues with the Aiel and also mess with Nynaeve's storylines, because Elayne is such an effective balance and foil to her. You could have a story where Nyaeve recovers the Dominion Bands, fights Moghedian, kicks off a Whitecloak-Prophet war, finds the rebels, captures Moghedian and then goes to Ebou Dar to recover the Bowl of the Winds, use it and then rejoin Rand for the Cleansing, but I have no idea what that story would look like.


View original postHonestly, you could even tell a sort of version of the whole story without Mat or Perrin. Just make it about Rand, his mentors, allies, adversaries and love interest(s). Focus entirely on his journey to Tear, HE can free the Wondergirls (however many survive to make it to the screen) from the dungeons of the Stone, we can ignore the Two Rivers, Rand can also go into the doorway ter'angreal and get battle knowledge. Or he can download the combat knowledge of generations of Aiel from the columns. Then HE can kill Couladin, and there's no need for the Band. Taim can be entirely responsible for the rescue at Dumai's Wells, and he's more sinister that way if Rand seems even more dependant on him. They can figure work-arounds for Mat's absence from the Bowl of the Winds story and ways for Egwene's strategy to work without the Band. They can make Egwene the leader of the alliance at the Last Battle and cut that way down to a bunch of scenes of her yelling to indicate things are ramping up, or something is working. When you get right down to it, with the ending all Sandersonized and some equally-hacky screenwriters mangling the themes and parallels and character development, Mat & Perrin are off in their own stories that don't have much to do with Rand. Their importance to Rand's success, with a few things chopped out, is more of an informed attribute than an essential part of the story.


View original postIn the same vein, it might have been smart to trim Nori, Dori, Bifur and Bofur from The Hobbit, and forget the addition of Tauriel. The only reason I'd leave in Ori, Oin & Gloin would be to maintain continuity with the Moria scenes in Fellowship (I don't really remember what made it into the director's cut, if they mentioned the watcher in the water getting Oin or if it's established that was Ori's corpse they found).


View original postOn the other hand, I saw an article suggesting that the series could "fix" Jordan's heteronormativity by eliminating Rand's relationships with Elayne & Aviendha and having them be a couple instead.

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