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Not really, no. Legolas Send a noteboard - 23/01/2020 07:23:58 PM

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The founders wanted the President convicted in an impeachment only if there's a 2/3 vote in the Senate. Do you think a simple majority of voters in favor of that conviction should be enough to trigger 2/3 of Senators to be and vote likewise in favor?

I don't think Senators should vote based on what a majority of voters thinks, and certainly not when that majority is as doubtful as it is here, where the only safe conclusion from looking at the polls is that it's too close to be sure which side has the majority.
View original postI mean, the reason that Trump won't be is that the House's case wasn't strong enough to move enough voters to put 2/3 of Senators on notice that they must either vote to impeach or lose their jobs, right? A majority of Democrats know that they must either vote to impeach or be replaced, but they want to impeach anyway so of course they will. A couple of Democrats might fear that if they vote to impeach then that action could cost them an election because they're at risk in red states, while my Senator Jones has a more unique situation. His re-election campaign here in Alabama is probably hopeless anyway so he might as well kamikaze and do as much damage as possible to Trump because there's really no downside. Maybe he can get a new job in the Biden administration after being such a loyal soldier. On the other hand, maybe he can hope that TyrReborn's fears are valid and Roy Moore will win the Republican primary and Jones will then have a chance in the general. Probably no chance if he votes to convict, of course. So maybe he won't.

Meanwhile, there are definitely more than 34 Republican Senators (maybe as many as 50!) who know that they are gone if they vote to convict on the charges the House has come up with so far, and likewise would be doomed if they side with the Democrats to expand the investigation in the Senate, essentially giving the prosecutors a do-over on constructing their case.

Impeachment goes nowhere unless polling shifts dramatically, right? Polling only shifts dramatically if some super-damning new evidence is found. Seems unlikely.


I agree with basically all of this except the first sentence. How weak or strong the House's case was is really quite immaterial. It clearly could have been stronger if they had taken more time to build their cases and had waited to see if they could enforce subpoenas through the courts. Or if Trump had been even more blatant about abusing taxpayer money for his private purposes. But we all know that it's not how strong the case is, or how flagrantly Trump violates the law, that is the deciding factor. It's purely a question of whether he alienates enough of his supporters as to allow Republican Senators the necessary breathing room to vote independently.

And regarding vulnerable Republicans not daring to vote with the Dems to expand the investigation in the Senate - I don't know, I could see a scenario happening where witnesses are in fact called, for instance if the Democrats agree to have Joe Biden as a witness as well. Would make sense to me.

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As Senate Trial Begins, 44% Approve of Trump (Gallup Poll) - 22/01/2020 12:47:44 PM 598 Views
It was my understanding that there would be no math - 22/01/2020 03:53:05 PM 243 Views
You do realize that is the single most anti-impeachment recent poll out there? - 22/01/2020 06:19:18 PM 259 Views
Practical question - 23/01/2020 03:05:59 PM 217 Views
Not really, no. - 23/01/2020 07:23:58 PM 241 Views
Fivethirtyeight rates the polling of it a B. So it's credible. - 24/01/2020 02:07:19 PM 248 Views
So true - 24/01/2020 03:41:43 PM 219 Views
Sure it is, I didn't say it's an unreliable poll. Just that it's an outlier. - 24/01/2020 06:41:47 PM 231 Views
I agree with everything you replied with. - 24/01/2020 07:22:45 PM 237 Views
Not sure I agree with your last point. - 24/01/2020 08:06:49 PM 218 Views
I wonder what Pelosi has in mind for her endgame. - 22/01/2020 06:38:41 PM 229 Views
The Democrats already know they're going to lose 1 here in Alabama - 22/01/2020 06:58:00 PM 240 Views
I assume that's why he said 4. Otherwise 3 would do it, with a Dem VP. - 22/01/2020 07:26:04 PM 225 Views
I don't think that's what he meant. - 22/01/2020 07:32:20 PM 220 Views
Oh. Right. Assuming a Trump re-election, then - certainly plausible at this point. *NM* - 22/01/2020 07:38:37 PM 108 Views
Yes aerocontrols is right.. - 22/01/2020 08:39:49 PM 229 Views
That bump is, at least so far, purely hypothetical. - 22/01/2020 09:25:55 PM 239 Views
It's also 10 months away. Polls can change a lot in 10 months. *NM* - 22/01/2020 09:49:41 PM 106 Views
Your premise is full of shit - 23/01/2020 05:44:01 PM 249 Views
Er, yes, since you ask, I do include you among said 'rabid Trump fanboys'. - 23/01/2020 06:58:41 PM 241 Views
And I consider you a moron. Your point? *NM* - 23/01/2020 07:59:11 PM 127 Views
Clearly I don't have any point you're interested in hearing. - 23/01/2020 08:38:27 PM 231 Views
I mean, Roy Moore is running in this election again, as far as I'm aware. - 23/01/2020 03:41:57 AM 230 Views
Yeah, but it seems super unlikely, right? - 23/01/2020 03:11:06 PM 239 Views
Man I sincerely hope not, but Moore's sorta like a cold sore. - 23/01/2020 05:13:27 PM 218 Views
Surely this time, if Trump is also all-in against him, there's no way he wins the primary? *NM* - 23/01/2020 07:02:33 PM 118 Views
Surely, a pedophile won't win the nomination. - me a few years back *NM* - 24/01/2020 04:11:58 AM 118 Views
?! - 24/01/2020 12:35:28 PM 232 Views
Re: ?! *NM* - 24/01/2020 12:35:54 PM 111 Views
The login problem seems to be blocking attempts to edit posts - 24/01/2020 12:38:34 PM 239 Views
Apparently afterwards it was claimed that this was widely known in his hometown since the 80s... - 24/01/2020 06:07:15 PM 231 Views
That was the line Moore's voters used. - 24/01/2020 07:23:06 PM 224 Views
The parts he openly admitted to were questionable enough. - 24/01/2020 08:07:08 PM 222 Views

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