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Season 2 Episode 2 Cannoli Send a noteboard - 02/09/2023 06:06:52 AM

2:00 Rand’s shacking up with someone. And they’re making prostitution jokes, because I guess that’s another concept or feminist writers forgot does not exist in WoT.

3:56 Okay, the “Previously On” had Rand asking if it was true that male channelers go mad and kill everyone they ever loved and Moiraine indicating it is. ITB, that was Lews Therin’s thing. Most male channelers kill pretty randomly or indiscriminately. And Rand’s plan to avoid this was to disappear into the wilderness where there would be no one around to hurt. This version is not only not doing that, he is living in one of the largest cities in the world. And in anticipation of the Show defenders’ argument that in this medium he is more worried about killing his friends and other people are not in danger, I guess that means he’s just using the woman in his bed as a masturbation aid, and has absolutely no affection for her? Because that describes Rand in any way at all?

And if it is, how and why are we supposed to be invested in him, at all?

Also, if all male channelers have to do is stay away from their loved ones, why have they been eliminated? Why does the Tower hunt them down? Why not just keep them sequestered and use them? How did the Breaking happen? Were the male Aes Sedai super attached to the geographical features of their day?

4:01 Please tell me this is not an insane asylum for male channelers.

4:42 Lan and Moiraine in their Borderland retreat, with its palm trees.

10:40 Of all the stuff to adapt near-perfectly from the books, they chose that scene?

13:55 Rand is learning swordsmanship from a mental patient’s description of the moves. Okay, sure. Why not.

15:18 So the Aes Sedai use Healing combined with herbs. Just fixing them every which way, aren’t we?

19:32 What is with the singing in the background?

19:34 If we knew ANYTHING about the White Tower aside from the contents of some utterly irrelevant novels, we might have a clue about the significance of furniture in the hallways. Are they cleaning out Moiraine’s room? Opening one up for Nynaeve in the Accepted quarters? Or some made-up bullshit for the show that they think is unique or interesting?

19:44 There was a woman wearing red and white, to whom Egwene gave a funny look, that I assumed was the show’s inept attempt at courtesy to a sister. But now there are a bunch of red cushions. Is this Elayne moving in?

20:05 Her mother trained at the White Tower, there is no way Elayne should be under any illusions she would be allowed all the trappings of her outside life. It’s amazing how much you have to break in the characterization or worldbuilding, because you could not be bothered to introduce her in the first season, so that there would be some way for Egwene to figure out who Elayne is without this rigmarole that makes her look spoiled, changes her family history or messes with the Tower’s fundamental attitude toward the outside world.

20:42 You know how often this happens to Elayne ITB? Never, because she was raised to master courtesy and social situations and is extremely diplomatic.

21:20 The name is Treh-KAND. I always pronounced it TRACK-and.

21:45 Cadsuane Melaidhrin had a close friend with whom she formed a legendary pairing of Aes Sedai. Ok, totally tracks. In normal circumstances, I might find it funny, considering that over the course of the series, Elayne is part of a pairing that in just a couple of years utterly blows any three Aes Sedai’s accomplishments out of the water, but not with her next-door neighbor novice, or even a woman with whom she shared a novitiate in any way.

22:32 Why are Warders a part of this conversation?

23:09 Yeah, duh. I was confused, because everything Alanna just said seemed to be arguing to put Nynaeve through the test.

23:54 All the yammering about the emotions you feel through the bond, why would they need to peer at her face for emotional cues?

25:00 Now what critical information is Nynaeve about to learn thanks to incredibly incompetent security precautions on Liandrin’s part?

29:12 I KNOW this line from Verin about Oaths having loopholes one can exploit is meant to invoke her ultimate fate in the books. Which was stupid and unnecessary in the book, and stop trying to remind us of books you can’t be bothered to adhere to. You don’t get to draft off of characterizations you’ve violated every which way you can.

Also, according to Verin, Moriaine brought the boys to the Tower in the autumn. Which means that one month of travel time that had elapsed when they arrived there means that Rand & Mat fled the Fade Thom fought and Nynaeve spontaneously Healed everyone and Logain was gentled after the attempt to recapture him and Perrin and Egwene joined the Tinker caravan a month before autumn. In other words, the first few episodes took place over a whole spring and most of a summer.

30:13 Is this supposed to be the colorful Foregate?

30:41 Is Rand’s stare supposed to an outside-looking-in regret that he no longer has the company of his best friends? Because it looks a lot more homicidal.

30:47 He’s on the move. Maybe it’s because that guy used the word “bastard” in a setting that is dominated by women and thus has no concept of illegitimate birth status, and Rand is instinctively acting to eradicate the Patriarchy in its cradle.

31:53 Is Rand going to explain why he mugged that guy, or is he just going to whine about spontaneously channeling?

32:00 Wow. Lanfear actually got him in bed. They just do not give a crap about anything but sex. They will ruin anything, overwrite any character trait, in order to insert a sex scene.

Another, even worse possibility is a Lanfear redemption arc. There seems to be a segment of the fandom who are obsessed with her, and her combination of beauty and channeling capacity and are constantly wishing she was a good guy or at least was closer to Rand than she was ITB. Given what other elements the producers seem to be pandering to, it would not surprise me in the least.

33:14 Elayne should have had her servants and special furnishings out on the lawn before her first conversation with Egwene was done. The Aes Sedai should not be addressing her as Daughter-Heir. This is just basic common sense! What is the point of assimilating her into your organization if you are constantly sending the message that her external birth rank is more important, and takes precedence over her status in the Tower? How are you even supposed to mold her into a properly obedient and disciplined novice?

33:38 Sheriam is finally getting around to what they should have been prepared for before she ever arrived, but why, if Elayne is just another novice, did an Aes Sedai just address her as “Daughter-Heir” a moment ago?

34:07 The correct answer, Sheriam, was “Both”. And you don’t give up on getting the name! Whether you need it or not, you asked for it, so Elayne has to give it to you, or you suck as Mistress of Novices. What is the point of removing her trappings of wealth and power and driving home that she’s just another novice, if you let her get her way in the argument?! A new recruit loses every argument or debate and the same rule should apply to people who are being trained to wield the Power that Broke the World. She has to learn that the Tower’s way is the only way that counts. She does not get to withhold anything. Sheriam has to make her give up the name, and then punish the person who is guilty extra and make sure Elayne knows it is because of her recalcitrance!

The really gross thing is Book!Elayne would readily agree with me, which is why the only time she gets tripped up in that manner is in her personal relationship with an Aes Sedai that predates her joining the Tower. And given the very minor degree of her offense, I think Elaida was also trying to make that point by sending her to Sheriam for her familiarity without a warning.

34:24 It’s just a cherry on top of the shit sundae, but going through Egwene to get to Nynaeve only reinforces their old hometown ties that the Tower is, or should be, interested in breaking up. By treating them as a unit, they encourage Egwene and Nynaeve to see their relationship as having significance.

35:32 What was the thought process for Nynaeve to follow Liandrin all day and into the night? And how incompetent is Liandrin that after Moiraine flubbed her blackmail threat so bad last season, concerning this very man, she lets herself be followed all over the city by a woman making no believable efforts to conceal herself, while wearing a solid, pristine white dress?

36:56 Still don’t care about Liandrin, not at all curious what’s in this mystery box, and I am wondering how Book!Nynaeve with her Healing vocation stumbled into this show.

37:25 I don’t care that Liandrin has an elderly son, grandson or nephew (for the record, she’s in her thirties in the books). It contributes nothing to her characterization or anything I can imagine for the plot.

39:00 This is the first time I saw that Mat’s digging tool is a spoon. Which means that Liandrin is also inept in handling a prisoner, because she can’t be bothered with something as basic as counting the utensils.

Also, making a hole into the other, occupied, cell only doubles their chances of discovery, while providing no benefits other than knowledge of each other’s appearance. They should have immediately replaced that brick.

39:21 Everything on this show has to be about sex. Elayne and Egwene are probably scissoring back in the Tower.

39:38 Save “New Spring” for a spin-off, please. I don’t want to sit through a badly phrased oral version.

39:51 Is it me, or do they all look embarrassed for Adeleas? I can’t give the show credit, because they are like that creepy “cool mom” or wine aunt who think their sex talk makes them cool, so they have no business characterizing Adeleas as weird and out of touch. Adeleas did not make them write Alanna last episode or have Min’s first question to Mat be about sex.

40:14 We certainly could not let that not-relevant detail about Lan’s sexual abuser be omitted from the story.

40:22 I don’t think the writers read anything other than “Malkier has a cool sexy custom where teenagers lose their virginities to a cougar!” out of “New Spring.” Are they even remotely aware that the relevant part of the story was that Edeyn Arrell basically statutorily raped a barely pubescent boy with no parental figures in order to control and use him to bolster her political standing among the expatriate Malkieri community. This is one of the reasons why Lan was riding to the Borderlands to die at the outset of the story, because as a living man, it was clear he would always be the focus of political conflicts or impossible quests to reclaim the lands of Malkier, any of which might fatally divide or weaken the Borderlands. He sought to fulfil his duty to his people and his country by dying as an example of the Malkieri commitment to fight the Shadow, and giving them a dead legend to admire, rather than a flesh-and-blood man they can use. His carneira had everything to do with his outlook and how his Malkieri heritage was a burden and a constraint, and nothing at all to do with how he came to meet and work with Moiraine.

Everything else aside, why would you mention any word indicating anything sexual in the hearing of this gross, leering woman? The very image at this timestamp looks like a dictionary illustration of the word “sleazy.” She makes Rhavin and Graendal seem tasteful, restrained and temperate.

41:37 What can they possibly gain from moving between their cells, except, again, increasing the chance of getting caught? Now, if someone comes, they have a lot more bricks to put back in place, assuming they can get Min back to her room quickly. They are not one iota closer to getting out, and are only endangering whatever they gain from having contact with each other, by making it very likely that they will be caught and separated.

44:13 Eh, so what? The only notable visions we have had from her were pointless anyway. Are we really supposed to believe that Mat is going to kill Rand, or be upset at the prospect of Min being frightened off from a friendship with a man with whom she never speaks in all of Robert Jordan’s books?

44:28 This is her third scene, and we have no characterization of Selene yet, aside from “sleeps with Rand.”

46:13 I guess this counts as character building, even if it actually is just set up for the reveal of Lanfear and Lews Therin.

46:44 Elayne not having any friends before the Tower is generally accepted by readers, because it can be inferred, but it’s not something she ever says. She does not pity herself and only mentions the restrictions on her growing up, in the context of an activity coming up that she had never been allowed to do before, or to explain her ignorance in a particular situation.

48:23 This is accurate to book characterization, but of Egwene, not Nynaeve. It is definitely a thing that Egwene completely misses her friends’ struggles, or fails to understand the cause of their discontent, and that she perceives them getting advantages and special treatment (e.g., Liandrin’s mentorship, Rand’s vacation among the Aiel), when the reality is much less pleasant for them.

Meanwhile, also in the books, Egwene, far more than Nynaeve, got extra advantages and circumvented the rules, usually by breaking them and disobeying her mentors. This looks like Egwene-stanning writers expressing their opinion of Nynaeve, with close to a decade of channeling experience under her belt, being allowed to skip being a novice and go right to Accepted, and never mind that they have failed to actually show us Nynaeve prospering and getting away with anything. She’s still a novice with a block.

48:30 “Egwene, I know we’re just getting to know each other, so I hope you’ll forgive me when I say…” I would much prefer Nynaeve as my partner. She sounds totally badass, and you’re kind of a drip.

48:38 Are they calling Egwene out!? And using Elayne to do it! Also canonical!

49:03 She said “Egwene” so it can’t possibly be Egwene out there. Liandrin? Sheriam come to punish her? Moiraine and Lan looking for somewhere to crash without having to listen to Adeleas being gross? Probably Liandrin. Come to make up and be friends and then Egwene, in turn, will witness their amicable interactions and stalk off all butt hurt.

49:13 What a shock.

49:23 Ah, she’s still pissed, but she’s taking Nynaeve for the Accepted test.

50:42 Not having Nynaeve take the test naked does not make up for the scripting of every Aes Sedai whose name begins with “A”.

51:29 If the bond is not functioning, how was Lan supposed to sense the Myrddraal? Lan does not do the self-pity, false modesty or taking blame that is not his.

51:44 Moiraine knew she wanted Lan for a Warder right away. What possible purpose can be served by altering the backstory for this anecdote?

53:07 Gee, if only you had given a little less screentime to Steppin the Tragic Warder and Dana the Dumpy Darkfriend, and a bit more to Thom, the audience would know what a gleeman is, and Moiraine could use a proper simile for the setting, such as “like a gleeman pulling birds out of his sleeves”.

55:15If Moiraine’s loyalty is to the Dragon Reborn alone (and it never was, ITB, or rather it was to her own idea of the Dragon and what he should be and do; she herself verbally asserted the Tower was a higher loyalty, even after she swore obedience to him, at a time when her truthfulness was not in question because her status wrt the Power was not a big mystery)… if her only priority is the Dragon, she should be taking Lan along, because she’s more effective with him at her back.

Just about everything out of her mouth is nonsense. She took pains to sneak away from the house without Lan, and without him, she would never have survived until Verin & co arrived. To say he failed her is ridiculous. But is she shielded or stilled? If the former, how can she believe some of the crap she’s spewing and if the latter, why Is Lan experiencing nothing like Steppin?

56:32 Why are they dragging him? The funky helmets makes me think Seanchan, and who cares about geography.

56:38 Oh, right. This is the woke channeler stan show. Their view of any group is wildly distorted to focus on the sins according to their enthusiasms or worldview. Thus the Children of the Light go from an over zealous group hunting Darkfriends, to a cult of channeler hunters, and now the focus on the Seanchan is all going to be slavery, so that’s the introduction to the Seanchan, dragging people off to enslave, according to the most lurid fantasies of social media anti-slavery activists.

58:20 The badass Shienaran is going to be Maseema, I bet.

59:45 How is this at all an effective method of transporting slaves?

1:00:55 So no real depiction of the Seanchan, just Rule of Cool stuff. Tuon wore a veil, let’s cover their current leader’s face, that will look cool! Never mind what that face covering meant in Seanchan.

1:01:24 So Rand mugged that guy to get his job. Is he going to meet Logain here?

1:01:52 Of course. Game of Thrones style plotting. “Narratively it made sense, because we wanted it to happen.” The Game of Thrones writers’ excuse for twisting a couple of storylines unrecognizably to make Tyrion and Daenerys meet as soon as they could get away with it. It makes no sense for a rebel leader to be put in any sort of place that is as easy to get someone in to see him as Rand finds it here. Even if he can’t channel, he could still be used as a symbol and rallying point. Dress him in fancy clothes and parade him in front of an army and he can still be used to gain support for a cause, without his own pesky ideas or agenda getting in the way. That Rand is here to see him is proof of how bad this is from a security perspective. This makes no sense that it is possible, but the writers want to put Rand and Logain together, so it’s going to happen.

1:02:28 Liars!


This was a little less dumb, and then the Seanchan and Logain turned up. What is Lanfear even doing with Rand in this plotline? How is what we’ve seen in service to her goals, and how is she incompetent at getting her way if it’s not. We got to waste two episodes on Aes Sedai bullshit, proving they learned nothing from Steppin and Kerene last season and Nynaeve still has not taken her Accepted test. The only progress in the whole Tower storyline was the introduction of Elayne who has not been ruined as much as everyone else, and if you squint, might pass for the same character. Meanwhile, the image of the Aes Sedai is plummeting to Galactic Empire in “Obi-Wan Kenobi” levels of ineptitude. Pretty clear the Seanchan are going to be the narrative whipping boys for most of this season.

Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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This message last edited by Cannoli on 03/09/2023 at 04:51:30 AM
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Season 2 Episode 2 - 02/09/2023 06:06:52 AM 159 Views
Ha, should've known you'd be more critical than me about Elayne. - 02/09/2023 11:40:16 AM 69 Views
Elayne was perfectly fine.....no problem with her, yet! *NM* - 03/09/2023 10:48:44 PM 31 Views
Better than E1, but..... - 03/09/2023 10:53:28 PM 59 Views

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