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An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Isaac Send a noteboard - 15/11/2011 03:08:17 AM
If I had been a player I would have argued against it, but in this circumstance I let it pass because 1- I prefer not to penalise players for coming up with something I hadn't planned for and 2- I couldn't be certain it was an objective ruling rather than a desperate attempt to salvage my setup (unlike for example this, which was clearly an attempt to sidestep existing rules and I knew I would have banned in any game, ever.)


Well, I neutered it as best I could so it would only detect purely identical RM's, but as I said in the NB at the time, I was more than half convinced we had mass coppage going on. I didn't actually view it as a rules sidestep, the neutering was to minimize collateral damage if it wasn't the case as my head thought. Such a technique can only mean anything if the Mod's done identical wordings, which I never do and generally discourage... though it did win us the Tower game if you remember, that 'win with the Tower' bit let us run the table even with 3 scum and a SK in a game of 10, ditto game 2. Anyway, I don't encourage such sidesteps but I do consider it to be really more the responsibility yof the Mod to make them impossible by changing up RM wording.

Anyway, I don't think it's particularly unfair, but I generally dislike it because it breaks down the game to something more of a system than, well, a game. Generally speaking, it's my opinion that mafia should be played against the other players, not the game itself.

Incidentally, while I had not planned for coded roleclaims, I had conceived of situations like mass Day 1 roleclaims, and considered the idea of simply telling the scum about the setting, but I judged that would give them an unfair advantage. Instead, I tried to give them hints - first off, the no death messages was intended to encourage fakeclaims more than it was about actually concealing the number of cops - I never expected someone who thought they were a cop to go down without roleclaiming, at which point the cat would be out of the bag, and that likely on Day 1. Second, I gave both scum roles that messed with cop investigations - a Godfather and a Framer - to suggest the possibility that they would come under a lot of investigations. And third, I let them both know about each other's roles from Day 1, so that they would know about that aspect before they had the opportunity to communicate.

Amusingly enough, I was reluctant to replace Kronin because I knew any sub would have knowledge that they had been a Cop, and given the absence of death messages, that would make falseclaiming a cop far more obvious. Evidently, I need not have worried at all :P.

Another mistake I made with this setup is not allowing the Daycops to investigate on Day 1. Investigations would have given the Daycops more confidence to act on Day 1 (You'll notice Isaac and Ranagrande's behaviour on Day 2) and might have helped the generalised Day 1 paralysis. That was really stupid on my part.

Fun detail: Any cop, were he insane or even paranoid, investigating himself would turn up an innocent result. Because CONFOUND.

All the poems were about the setup, incidentally. With a bit of filler thrown in for the fun of additional confusion (the LotR and Diablo references, for example, were thrown in merely because I could :P). And I have no idea what the deal is with the widow's hair or the windows of the wretched stair. It just sounded cool.


It's hard to tell how much impact the poems ultimately had, I suspect they subconsciously clued me in but a lot of that's natural paranoia. Oh, the Titus thread's your turn again :P
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Game 24, Day 2 - Game has ended Fanatic-Templar - 06/11/2011 06:04:27 PM 1480 Views
I'm actually a bit surprised by the choice of ? Isaac - 06/11/2011 07:34:57 PM 1327 Views
Yes, it was an oversight. He was a townie. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 06/11/2011 08:01:11 PM 562 Views
Voting record: Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 05:25:40 PM 1231 Views
Was he suspicious of anyone yesterday? beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 02:52:26 PM 1026 Views
Re: Was he suspicious of anyone yesterday? Isaac - 07/11/2011 03:36:31 PM 1197 Views
I think a second look at our poetry is in order too, now we have more of it Isaac - 07/11/2011 12:43:21 AM 1166 Views
Re: I think a second look at our poetry is in order too, now we have more of it Kronin al'Sulc - 07/11/2011 12:57:32 AM 1027 Views
... and the two things Isaac - 07/11/2011 01:29:31 AM 1175 Views
I object to this plan. Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 02:07:35 AM 1067 Views
UM UM UM ALERT ALERT ALERT beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 02:59:27 PM 974 Views
Re: UM UM UM ALERT ALERT ALERT Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:23:42 PM 1092 Views
Re: UM UM UM ALERT ALERT ALERT beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 08:17:53 PM 1004 Views
Wait, would everyone be picking their own two letters? Ah, ok, it's not as dangerous as I thought beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 08:20:32 PM 1013 Views
Yes *NM* Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:41:04 PM 551 Views
and follow that to the logical conclusion... Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:40:43 PM 1254 Views
no *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:19:20 PM 576 Views
FT already banned it *NM* Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:20:45 PM 554 Views
I know, I'm just voicing my opinion *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:27:34 PM 477 Views
Besides the ban, I can't see why you'd object Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:44:14 PM 1048 Views
errrm, i don't think no is a strong enough word for this *NM* Yunalesca - 07/11/2011 06:58:09 PM 674 Views
? will be replacing Kronin... Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 01:56:08 AM 1042 Views
Vote: ? ranagrande - 07/11/2011 02:33:43 PM 1203 Views
Re: Vote: ? Fox and Ravens - 07/11/2011 02:42:15 PM 1353 Views
I'll echo that vote. Stephen - 07/11/2011 06:15:21 PM 1220 Views
He could have just been being polite Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:34:30 PM 1396 Views
Very good point, I think a roleclaim from ?, using Kronin's coded roleclaim from yesterday beetnemesis - 07/11/2011 08:22:45 PM 1154 Views
? can't decode Kronin's RC, and he wouldn't be allowed to give his own Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:45:50 PM 1097 Views
yeah I could go ahead and roleclaim if you want... ? - 07/11/2011 08:56:41 PM 1057 Views
No, I don't want you to claim Isaac - 07/11/2011 08:57:47 PM 987 Views
Wait what's the difference? ? - 07/11/2011 09:06:06 PM 1000 Views
Re: Wait what's the difference? ? - 07/11/2011 09:06:23 PM 1058 Views
Re: Wait what's the difference? Isaac - 07/11/2011 09:09:04 PM 1032 Views
I oh got confused. ? - 08/11/2011 02:41:46 AM 1095 Views
That is not the case against Kronin. ranagrande - 07/11/2011 09:48:52 PM 906 Views
I don't think substitution is enough Isaac - 07/11/2011 10:25:27 PM 1151 Views
is this gonna turn into that game where i got lynched thrice in one game but for ? instead? Yunalesca - 07/11/2011 10:24:15 PM 1072 Views
I only allowed the replacement because it was asked on Day 1. Fanatic-Templar - 07/11/2011 10:50:55 PM 997 Views
Anybody else get a chuckle out of this? *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:36:28 PM 541 Views
Ignore the *NM* *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 06:43:16 PM 522 Views
doubly so... Isaac - 07/11/2011 06:49:05 PM 1185 Views
out of what? *NM* Yunalesca - 07/11/2011 07:51:06 PM 515 Views
you have to go into the messege like i said ignore the *NM* prompt *NM* Hieshyn - 07/11/2011 08:54:22 PM 489 Views
Shrug, I think we should still get a roleclaim from ?/Kronin beetnemesis - 08/11/2011 01:51:24 PM 1136 Views
I coded a claim above...in response to Isaac I think... ? - 08/11/2011 08:46:07 PM 1073 Views
Re: I coded a claim above...in response to Isaac I think... Fox and Ravens - 08/11/2011 09:39:45 PM 1149 Views
Re: I coded a claim above...in response to Isaac I think... ? - 08/11/2011 10:18:51 PM 921 Views
Heh. Die? Die! His username makes that weird. *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/11/2011 10:55:22 PM 572 Views
eh Yunalesca - 08/11/2011 10:40:47 PM 1118 Views
What am I missing here? Fox and Ravens - 08/11/2011 02:32:14 PM 1105 Views
Re: What am I missing here? ? - 08/11/2011 08:38:19 PM 1106 Views
Semi-RBIRL Isaac - 09/11/2011 05:26:11 AM 1023 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis Isaac - 09/11/2011 10:24:06 PM 1218 Views
RC decode Isaac - 09/11/2011 10:35:52 PM 1173 Views
Bah, now I have to claim as well ranagrande - 09/11/2011 10:46:37 PM 1078 Views
All right, let's proceed sanely then Isaac - 09/11/2011 10:51:12 PM 1063 Views
OK, Unvote ranagrande - 09/11/2011 11:23:35 PM 968 Views
decoding: ranagrande - 09/11/2011 11:22:31 PM 1109 Views
Would you mind walking through that last step? Isaac - 09/11/2011 11:44:30 PM 1083 Views
Not at all. ranagrande - 10/11/2011 12:09:09 AM 1062 Views
Okay I confirm your decode then Isaac - 10/11/2011 12:16:22 AM 1052 Views
... *NM* beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 01:59:58 PM 612 Views
Woah. Problems. ? - 09/11/2011 11:32:40 PM 996 Views
there is something really fishy going on... *NM* Yunalesca - 09/11/2011 11:34:09 PM 526 Views
Hmm...You mention me a lot in that post...Was that me as ? or me as Kronin? I'm a tad confused. ? - 09/11/2011 11:28:55 PM 1187 Views
I'm only talking about you as you are now, Kronin's sub Isaac - 09/11/2011 11:56:19 PM 1078 Views
what? Yunalesca - 09/11/2011 11:32:45 PM 880 Views
Re: what? ? - 09/11/2011 11:34:16 PM 941 Views
Actually, there's a strong chance neither is lying Isaac - 09/11/2011 11:53:35 PM 1259 Views
So, what now? Isaac - 10/11/2011 12:49:12 AM 1328 Views
Is or Is Not a Cop (Table) Isaac - 10/11/2011 12:52:52 AM 1121 Views
I am not a cop. *NM* ? - 10/11/2011 01:04:38 AM 450 Views
I'm the daycop. Vote: Ranagrande. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:41:59 AM 1044 Views
EBWOP: here's the code. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:43:00 AM 912 Views
Decode confirmed Isaac - 10/11/2011 02:08:26 AM 945 Views
Yeah, forgot to say I used Vignere. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 02:18:31 AM 536 Views
EBWOP again Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:44:04 AM 894 Views
Stand by for the moment Isaac - 10/11/2011 01:49:38 AM 1072 Views
Jesus...I REALLY need to read everything before I start posting. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 01:54:11 AM 1076 Views
Add to that the next follow up, that ? might previously have been a Day Cop too Isaac - 10/11/2011 02:04:29 AM 1142 Views
It's possible... Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 02:18:02 AM 1044 Views
Re: It's possible... Isaac - 10/11/2011 02:30:00 AM 1364 Views
I am a daycop. I found Isaac innocent. *NM* beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 02:02:05 PM 574 Views
We still need you role decode *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 06:19:53 PM 485 Views
(I did, in my other message) beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 07:18:43 PM 880 Views
Okay, got ya, decode confirmed *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:02:55 PM 549 Views
i am a cop Yunalesca - 10/11/2011 07:00:14 PM 928 Views
and my decode Yunalesca - 10/11/2011 07:14:38 PM 1072 Views
Yep, decode confirmed *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:06:16 PM 569 Views
Also, which ? did you check? Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:08:05 PM 980 Views
original ? Yunalesca - 10/11/2011 08:10:30 PM 1067 Views
Thanks *NM* Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:11:13 PM 485 Views
Not a cop *NM* Hieshyn - 10/11/2011 11:48:27 PM 742 Views
To the decode-mobile! *plays 60s Batman music* Stephen - 11/11/2011 02:32:06 PM 986 Views
Let's take another look at that poem Isaac - 10/11/2011 01:44:36 AM 1169 Views
Ah, I was wondering how come there was suddenly thirty new posts in this thread. Fanatic-Templar - 10/11/2011 03:02:10 AM 884 Views
Hahaha I have to read all of these posts, but FT, you're insane. beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 01:58:01 PM 1155 Views
FT IS insane. Turns out I was missing something after all. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 09:59:56 PM 462 Views
OK! Here we go: beetnemesis - 10/11/2011 02:23:10 PM 1135 Views
Re: OK! Here we go: Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 05:52:25 PM 1186 Views
I think it's time to consider mass RC Isaac - 10/11/2011 08:15:36 PM 1021 Views
Sure... ? - 10/11/2011 09:19:49 PM 1236 Views
There's a lot of options still, and decode confirmed by the way Isaac - 10/11/2011 09:48:05 PM 1236 Views
I have been nominated! ranagrande - 10/11/2011 10:30:37 PM 1119 Views
Thanks Isaac - 10/11/2011 10:36:36 PM 1164 Views
My pleasure *NM* ranagrande - 10/11/2011 10:44:23 PM 460 Views
*NM* ? - 10/11/2011 11:21:59 PM 494 Views
Not saying that that is right of course... ? - 10/11/2011 11:23:23 PM 1063 Views
Hmm... ? - 10/11/2011 11:20:50 PM 915 Views
I totally agree. Fox and Ravens - 10/11/2011 09:54:25 PM 978 Views
The wasy I see it, anybody not claiming cop is going to get lynched Hieshyn - 10/11/2011 11:57:24 PM 1111 Views
Lying and claiming cop when you can't decode your RC will get you lynched faster. *NM* Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 12:33:05 AM 487 Views
Which I didn't do *NM* Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:05:30 AM 536 Views
I know, I know. Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 03:57:51 AM 971 Views
Fox, did you get a response on your investigation? *NM* beetnemesis - 11/11/2011 12:20:12 AM 570 Views
I hadn't performed one yet. Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 12:34:48 AM 1075 Views
Isaac Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:00:18 AM 1175 Views
Or me Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:07:10 AM 1075 Views
I'd recommend ? ranagrande - 11/11/2011 02:15:24 AM 935 Views
Bring it. ? - 11/11/2011 03:10:14 AM 975 Views
Someone who has already been copped beetnemesis - 11/11/2011 03:57:08 AM 925 Views
I'll investigate ? because yuna's the other daycop Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 04:00:49 AM 960 Views
Wait a minute....I meant that I would be testing it against rana. Not yuna Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 01:39:16 PM 1221 Views
no i'm not, im a normal cop *NM* Yunalesca - 11/11/2011 09:18:23 PM 574 Views
I had everything messed up anyway *NM* Fox and Ravens - 12/11/2011 10:45:54 PM 511 Views
Vote: Beetnemisis/RBIRL Hieshyn - 11/11/2011 02:04:35 AM 998 Views
Hey people sorry for the unexpected RBIRL Stephen - 11/11/2011 11:47:11 AM 1172 Views
RBIRL here too. Fox and Ravens - 11/11/2011 01:34:45 PM 928 Views
I'm thinking either Hieshyn or ? beetnemesis - 11/11/2011 04:32:16 PM 1049 Views
It kinda seems like Hieshyn and ? are our logical lynch targets, plus Cop (Table) Isaac - 11/11/2011 10:09:52 PM 1267 Views
Fox investigated ? and found him innocent *NM* ranagrande - 11/11/2011 10:41:39 PM 484 Views
Vote: ? ranagrande - 11/11/2011 10:46:43 PM 934 Views
I'm down with voting for ?, as long as everyone is clear on what our night actions should be beetnemesis - 12/11/2011 04:49:53 AM 1051 Views
Yeah, that seems logical next step, Vote: ? Isaac - 13/11/2011 02:59:25 AM 1283 Views
mrr, vote ? then *NM* Yunalesca - 13/11/2011 10:27:49 AM 661 Views
Think my vote was on ? already. Stephen - 13/11/2011 04:26:49 PM 1100 Views
Vote: ? *NM* beetnemesis - 14/11/2011 02:27:20 AM 613 Views
That should be lynch with yours, so... Isaac - 14/11/2011 03:07:36 AM 995 Views
? Has been lynched Fanatic-Templar - 14/11/2011 03:50:31 AM 1160 Views
Game ends. Fanatic-Templar - 14/11/2011 10:25:04 PM 1027 Views
Role list: Fanatic-Templar - 14/11/2011 10:26:32 PM 1057 Views
Jeeez. Fox and Ravens - 14/11/2011 11:43:47 PM 1035 Views
Kronin originally RC as a Tracker so we might have done better if we had been able to continue *NM* Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 12:06:07 AM 508 Views
Not even cause tracker is still the odd man out. Fox and Ravens - 15/11/2011 12:20:17 AM 1028 Views
That might have worked but everyone would have had targets Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:20:43 AM 1134 Views
Maybe, but I still would have known he was guilty. *NM* ranagrande - 15/11/2011 02:55:43 AM 479 Views
You were paranoid, amusingly enough. Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 02:59:43 AM 1040 Views
Ya there was no hope for us *NM* Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 12:04:06 AM 512 Views
YAY! Yunalesca - 14/11/2011 10:48:54 PM 1022 Views
Yeah the way I see it, we were doomed before we started. *NM* ? - 14/11/2011 11:53:37 PM 651 Views
Wow. *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 15/11/2011 01:09:28 AM 558 Views
Also I would like to be added to the list of future Moderator Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 12:07:51 AM 902 Views
You'd have first dibs via our order of precedence system Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:05:04 AM 1161 Views
Also whoever Mods should probably post a recruitment thread on some other NBs Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:50:02 AM 1080 Views
I expect my next game to draw in some new players. ranagrande - 15/11/2011 02:58:59 AM 1048 Views
More is better, okay that would be Hieshyn or Beet then, unless ? wants to toss in Isaac - 15/11/2011 03:26:25 AM 1015 Views
Nope I'm not ready to mod yet... ? - 15/11/2011 08:29:24 PM 937 Views
hey Yunalesca - 15/11/2011 09:46:28 PM 899 Views
I don't have anything prepared, so if Hieshyn wants it, I'll be happy to go after him beetnemesis - 15/11/2011 03:28:40 AM 1064 Views
It's Hieshyn's if he wants it, otherwise I can go next. ranagrande - 15/11/2011 12:40:13 PM 1070 Views
I'm not ready to go next Hieshyn - 15/11/2011 02:43:07 PM 1163 Views
Aight, I think it's me then. ranagrande - 15/11/2011 03:15:21 PM 925 Views
Re: Aight, I think it's me then. Fox and Ravens - 15/11/2011 04:09:07 PM 1095 Views
Deathless Mafia? Is that a thing? SQUEE, Mistborn! *NM* beetnemesis - 15/11/2011 10:15:49 PM 462 Views
If it wasn't a thing before, it is now! *NM* ranagrande - 15/11/2011 10:53:14 PM 469 Views
ooooh Yunalesca - 15/11/2011 11:27:26 PM 943 Views
You've got a week to read the last 2....GO, GO, GO!! *NM* Fox and Ravens - 15/11/2011 11:43:21 PM 507 Views
hah! i could read both in two days Yunalesca - 16/11/2011 07:56:58 PM 985 Views
Just for you, the game shall be spoiler free! *NM* ranagrande - 16/11/2011 12:12:24 AM 463 Views
Speaking of which, any timeline yet? Isaac - 19/11/2011 07:25:11 PM 974 Views
Sounds fantastic Stephen - 16/11/2011 12:10:06 AM 1128 Views
That could also be fantastic. *NM* ranagrande - 16/11/2011 12:13:29 AM 505 Views
I AM ALL SORTS OF PUMPED. *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 16/11/2011 09:11:38 PM 525 Views
Though may or may not actually be playing... *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 16/11/2011 09:11:58 PM 471 Views
Before the next game starts, we probably need to discuss RC coding Isaac - 15/11/2011 02:15:27 AM 1270 Views
Yeah, I really didn't like that idea. Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 02:58:21 AM 1378 Views
An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Isaac - 15/11/2011 03:08:17 AM 1185 Views
Although really, it's the same as if in IRL everyone just wrote down their role on a piece of paper beetnemesis - 15/11/2011 03:28:00 AM 1061 Views
Yeah, I don't think it warrants being banned (hence why I didn't), but I don't like it. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 03:37:59 AM 560 Views
Re: An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Fanatic-Templar - 15/11/2011 03:36:38 AM 1074 Views
Re: An informal agreement is probably the way to go then Isaac - 15/11/2011 03:43:39 AM 1401 Views
I really didn't like it either. Kronin al'Sulc - 16/11/2011 06:20:33 PM 1027 Views
I liked my plan: Random voting ftw! *NM* Fox and Ravens - 16/11/2011 06:29:07 PM 518 Views
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