Fair question, but it's actually pretty straightforward.
Isaac Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 04:41:18 PM
You're not seeing the odds, I think, and that causes confusion. I view FT at 50/50, coinflip, like I said. Everyone else is more like 30-70, specifically 14-1 divding the total number of baddies, which is probably four. 4/13 is 30%, 5 out of 13 is 38%, but I'd think if we had 5 then the miller claim is unlikely, since the miller role is essentially there to weaken the town, which would be weird if we had a 5 man DF faction or 4 Dfs and a SK, or 2 DFs factions, a cult, etc. Of course, this all relies on two assumptions, first that Gher generated a fair game (highly likely but if not there's nothing we can do so it's not worht contemplating) and second that nothing incredibly bizarre is part of the setup (which is also not worth contemplating at this stage since we can't expect our guesswork there to be very fruitful) which is why I'd guess 4 at this stage, giving me 30%.
So targeting FT is really just statistics, unable to decide if he's DF or town, considering both options equal, puts him at 50%. I consider anyone who is above the estimated norm (in this case 30%) to be a legtiimate candidate for lynching. I hope that clarifies things.
I do want to emphasize I've no objection to people pursuing other inquiries, I encourage, but this is where my crosshairs are right now so while I'll be glad to debate the merits of another candidate I myself do not plan to go hunting for any at this time. Give me a better option and I'll vote accordingly.
Now, there are some add-ons that further elevate FT, not in terms of guilt but in terms of acceptability as a lynchee. We of course, can not determine his guilt without kjilling him so as is often the case we don't just want a high-prob DF but a lynch which if flawed (dead townie) has the minimum fallout or otherwise profits us. i.e. two equally dubious claims, one as vanilla and one as a useful role, you lynch the vanilla because if you're wrong there is less damage, and as subsequent RCs come in you tend to be in a better position to evaluate the probability of role claim anyway.
Let us assume FT is not a DF, that he is a miller, which again I place at 50%
Positives of lynching him - if claim true
Confirms we have a cop
Removes a role no more valuable and arguably much less valuable than a vanilla
Discourages future use of miller claims and likely discourages mods from inserting self-aware millers
Confirms the existence of a miller thus indicating a game balance that is protown
Prevents risk of exposure of roles by defensive RC or let the DFs narrow it down.
Likely highlights some players who were supporting him as pro-town.
Gives us a vote record which is not based off a near-random vote, which is more likely to be useful.
Negatives of lynching FT - if claim true
Essentially circumvents furthering questioning today, protecting roles but also protecting DFs
Removes one of the better players from circulation.
Anyone is welcome to add on to those, but the ones listed seem fairly indisputeable, again, those are if FT is innocent, obviously the advantage if he is not is a dead DF/SK/etc with possible indicators of alliances to other players.
So targeting FT is really just statistics, unable to decide if he's DF or town, considering both options equal, puts him at 50%. I consider anyone who is above the estimated norm (in this case 30%) to be a legtiimate candidate for lynching. I hope that clarifies things.
I do want to emphasize I've no objection to people pursuing other inquiries, I encourage, but this is where my crosshairs are right now so while I'll be glad to debate the merits of another candidate I myself do not plan to go hunting for any at this time. Give me a better option and I'll vote accordingly.
Now, there are some add-ons that further elevate FT, not in terms of guilt but in terms of acceptability as a lynchee. We of course, can not determine his guilt without kjilling him so as is often the case we don't just want a high-prob DF but a lynch which if flawed (dead townie) has the minimum fallout or otherwise profits us. i.e. two equally dubious claims, one as vanilla and one as a useful role, you lynch the vanilla because if you're wrong there is less damage, and as subsequent RCs come in you tend to be in a better position to evaluate the probability of role claim anyway.
Let us assume FT is not a DF, that he is a miller, which again I place at 50%
Positives of lynching him - if claim true
Confirms we have a cop
Removes a role no more valuable and arguably much less valuable than a vanilla
Discourages future use of miller claims and likely discourages mods from inserting self-aware millers
Confirms the existence of a miller thus indicating a game balance that is protown
Prevents risk of exposure of roles by defensive RC or let the DFs narrow it down.
Likely highlights some players who were supporting him as pro-town.
Gives us a vote record which is not based off a near-random vote, which is more likely to be useful.
Negatives of lynching FT - if claim true
Essentially circumvents furthering questioning today, protecting roles but also protecting DFs
Removes one of the better players from circulation.
Anyone is welcome to add on to those, but the ones listed seem fairly indisputeable, again, those are if FT is innocent, obviously the advantage if he is not is a dead DF/SK/etc with possible indicators of alliances to other players.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Rafo Mafia 4: Day 1 has ended.
- 27/01/2010 05:53:50 PM
3823 Views
This is a confirmation of the prompt receival of said role message.
- 27/01/2010 08:30:45 PM
1813 Views
You made it up
- 27/01/2010 09:01:31 PM
1753 Views
Hmm ...
- 27/01/2010 09:21:59 PM
1864 Views
Ha.
- 28/01/2010 01:28:27 AM
1666 Views
It sounds like a real word.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:58 AM
1766 Views
You know, I'm still irritated we haven't been able to come up with a good R1 system
- 28/01/2010 07:08:22 AM
1735 Views
Well, lacking anything else...
- 28/01/2010 11:58:25 PM
1871 Views
I haven't the faintest idea what they mean.
- 29/01/2010 01:30:19 AM
1811 Views
Not really
- 29/01/2010 02:27:05 AM
1801 Views
Let's try something
- 29/01/2010 02:47:30 AM
1749 Views
alrighty then
- 29/01/2010 03:29:51 AM
1778 Views
That's sufficient, thanks
- 29/01/2010 03:48:11 AM
1645 Views
Yea, my message has all that.
- 29/01/2010 03:56:52 AM
1803 Views
Probably
- 29/01/2010 04:10:42 AM
1707 Views
Re: Probably
- 29/01/2010 07:30:48 AM
1674 Views
True- most DFs would wait a bit, and be like the 4th or 5th to jump in
- 29/01/2010 08:19:43 AM
1755 Views
I've got MPD
- 29/01/2010 04:22:00 AM
1746 Views
Surprise, surprise: I do too.
- 29/01/2010 06:21:04 AM
1748 Views
Remember when we killed the Serial Killer on Day 1? That was fun. Let's do that! *NM*
- 29/01/2010 08:20:24 AM
989 Views
I have MPD and number under 14. *NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:18:59 AM
1073 Views
I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
- 30/01/2010 04:14:17 AM
1830 Views
Re: I like to think of the first kill as a sacrifice to the Gods of Mafia
- 30/01/2010 04:27:53 AM
1741 Views
High priests cannot be sacrificed!
- 30/01/2010 04:53:38 PM
1648 Views
Some cultures, they make the best sacrifices
- 30/01/2010 05:47:46 PM
1736 Views
- 30/01/2010 05:47:46 PM
1736 Views
I want to roleclaim.
- 30/01/2010 07:08:11 PM
1770 Views
That is, well, surprising
- 30/01/2010 08:28:04 PM
1801 Views
Yeah, but I think it's best to do it now.
- 30/01/2010 09:38:49 PM
1660 Views
Hm. I wonder if we're all robots inside of a Mafia simulator. *NM*
- 30/01/2010 11:20:25 PM
925 Views
Well, I'm back...
- 31/01/2010 01:43:17 AM
1720 Views
Why do fencers keep appearing without me knowing of it?!?
- 31/01/2010 02:48:22 AM
1744 Views
Oh, and I had my first real tournament today...
- 31/01/2010 03:23:45 AM
1765 Views
Eh. Just don't listen to Issac too much.
- 31/01/2010 04:47:53 AM
1715 Views
I wanna say F-T, just cause I hate Millers.
- 31/01/2010 05:10:07 AM
1647 Views
But do you think a DF would try something that DFs already did in the game we just played?
- 31/01/2010 05:53:24 AM
1733 Views
And on a third hand...
- 31/01/2010 07:00:22 AM
1783 Views
So... back to neutral. *NM*
- 31/01/2010 03:27:58 PM
896 Views
You don't find that statement dubious?
- 31/01/2010 04:14:47 PM
1722 Views
I knew Yunalseca was a Darkfriend...
- 31/01/2010 07:17:33 PM
1691 Views
Everyone! Deep breaths...
- 31/01/2010 11:50:39 PM
1714 Views
That's a pretty big thing to forget though.
- 01/02/2010 01:39:44 AM
1684 Views
Who said anything about forgetting?
- 01/02/2010 02:53:49 AM
1723 Views
It brings you protection from guilty Cop results. *NM*
- 01/02/2010 03:01:22 AM
1064 Views
No...
- 01/02/2010 06:25:07 AM
1715 Views
Man... I hate defending people I'm not sure about
- 01/02/2010 07:14:13 AM
1751 Views
I agree with beet here.
- 01/02/2010 07:42:12 AM
1696 Views
Offer alternatives then
- 01/02/2010 11:18:47 AM
1740 Views
I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games
- 01/02/2010 02:23:26 PM
1719 Views
I agree, more or less
- 31/01/2010 05:55:11 AM
1756 Views
Re: I agree, more or less
- 31/01/2010 03:34:10 PM
1751 Views
Tracker is a role that sees who his target performs a Night Action on...
- 31/01/2010 03:49:24 PM
1619 Views
Re: I agree, more or less
- 31/01/2010 04:19:33 PM
1705 Views
Eh. I think this is going to end like Hopper.
- 31/01/2010 11:58:52 PM
1704 Views
What I don't like is the fact that Millers are often not told they're Millers.
- 01/02/2010 12:08:14 AM
1728 Views
Well, he could still be Mafia and have appropriate flavor.
- 01/02/2010 01:46:58 AM
1723 Views
We can't just lynch Isaac on the off chance that he might be a DF.
- 31/01/2010 05:42:08 AM
1735 Views
Alright, from my reading,
- 31/01/2010 10:53:52 PM
1703 Views
RE: I didn't mean we shouldn't reference strategies from earlier games (horizontal scroll avoidance)
- 01/02/2010 02:46:35 PM
1815 Views
I really just meant that I don't think F-T's claim of not knowing about Yuna's claim is
- 01/02/2010 06:16:11 PM
1703 Views
You still haven't explained what the purpose of such a lie would be.
- 01/02/2010 07:15:35 PM
1675 Views
I think the rationale was this:
- 01/02/2010 07:38:41 PM
1626 Views
Beg Pardon?
- 01/02/2010 08:07:20 PM
1693 Views
It's true, Isaac likes to be a leader, rather than a doer. *NM*
- 01/02/2010 11:17:02 PM
968 Views
Coward. *NM*
- 01/02/2010 11:17:21 PM
994 Views
Er... what just happened, here? *NM*
- 02/02/2010 12:55:51 AM
1027 Views
I made a pointless post, decided to turn it into a semi-sarcastic insult.
- 02/02/2010 01:27:48 AM
1708 Views
There's not really anything to explain
- 01/02/2010 09:20:57 PM
1744 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
- 01/02/2010 10:03:57 PM
1720 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
- 01/02/2010 10:33:49 PM
1772 Views
Re: There's not really anything to explain
- 01/02/2010 11:11:37 PM
1747 Views
Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
- 02/02/2010 12:01:48 AM
1669 Views
Re: Maybe you should ask one of the others to explain this to me
- 02/02/2010 01:15:41 AM
1755 Views
Right, so: A New Target
- 01/02/2010 08:03:28 PM
1866 Views
Re: Right, so: A New Target
- 01/02/2010 08:20:06 PM
1617 Views
Re: Right, so: A New Target *NM*
- 01/02/2010 08:48:25 PM
911 Views
Message get eaten? *NM*
- 01/02/2010 09:21:34 PM
942 Views
Apparantly... It was just a minor thing, lemme see if I remember...
- 02/02/2010 12:44:28 AM
1717 Views
Right, so: Defending Myself
- 01/02/2010 11:30:38 PM
1817 Views
Hmm...more accusations beyond beet's
- 02/02/2010 06:02:51 AM
1667 Views
Fair question, but it's actually pretty straightforward.
- 02/02/2010 04:41:18 PM
1837 Views
Your logic isn't terrible...
- 02/02/2010 04:54:54 PM
1642 Views
Re: Your logic isn't terrible...
- 02/02/2010 05:42:43 PM
1709 Views
Re: The random thing
- 02/02/2010 04:59:42 PM
1866 Views
Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
- 02/02/2010 08:48:19 PM
1812 Views
Re: Nah, I anticipated this would make me the prime lynch candidate.
- 02/02/2010 09:23:43 PM
1746 Views
Okay, so I've been reading, but I kept meaning to post on my comp. Sorry.
- 02/02/2010 06:21:12 AM
1769 Views
I never tried to stop any discussion
- 02/02/2010 12:46:54 PM
1753 Views
Like I said, I don't find it very suspicious, but it was just something I had seen.
- 02/02/2010 11:14:53 PM
1755 Views
Kronin is at least as suspicious as Issac, or F-T
- 02/02/2010 05:09:56 PM
1724 Views
That's pretty bold claim of intention.
- 02/02/2010 05:18:40 PM
1727 Views
Vote: Fanatic-Templar
- 03/02/2010 04:36:52 AM
1794 Views
Re: Vote: Fanatic-Templar
- 03/02/2010 03:13:57 PM
1828 Views
Speaking of time...
- 03/02/2010 03:28:42 PM
1781 Views
Only if it starts to grind to a halt. *NM*
- 03/02/2010 04:50:32 PM
1010 Views
Re: Only if it starts to grind to a halt.
- 03/02/2010 06:52:54 PM
1793 Views
Er... IS it active? I feel like we've kinda exhausted everything
- 03/02/2010 11:19:29 PM
1659 Views
Hahaha. well, it was!
- 04/02/2010 12:59:13 AM
1662 Views
"No lynch" is a bad idea. At the very least, let's lynch someone random *NM*
- 04/02/2010 04:07:00 AM
974 Views
Everybody knows my perspective on no lynches...or at least I suspect they do. *NM*
- 04/02/2010 04:09:17 AM
1016 Views
So you'd rather lynch someone random over F-T? Why?
- 04/02/2010 04:35:40 AM
1764 Views
Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
- 04/02/2010 06:58:15 AM
1738 Views
Re: Because I think F-T is almost definitely not a DF
- 04/02/2010 07:07:37 AM
1620 Views
Well, yeah- a chance of getting a DF is better than no chance at all
- 04/02/2010 07:04:27 PM
1691 Views
But there is a chance F-T is a DF.
- 04/02/2010 07:34:37 PM
1681 Views
Fair enough...
- 04/02/2010 07:49:26 PM
1683 Views
I agree with D_K actually
- 04/02/2010 08:32:09 PM
1783 Views
You think F-T has less than a 29% (4/14) chance to be a DF?
- 04/02/2010 08:55:34 PM
1624 Views
If a given random person is 30%, then yes, I think F-T is 29% or less
- 04/02/2010 11:20:26 PM
1716 Views
I regret that I have only one life to give to the Light...
- 04/02/2010 11:00:56 PM
1721 Views
- 05/02/2010 12:20:04 AM
1758 Views
You know, you're still at L-3.
- 04/02/2010 11:14:40 PM
1911 Views
L-2, as it were.
- 04/02/2010 11:41:10 PM
1681 Views
Just had to make me incorrect?
- 04/02/2010 11:55:02 PM
1646 Views
I couldn't resist.
*NM*
- 05/02/2010 01:07:59 AM
957 Views
- 05/02/2010 01:15:51 AM
1754 Views
*NM*
- 05/02/2010 01:07:59 AM
957 Views
- 05/02/2010 01:15:51 AM
1754 Views
Yeah, but I wasn't sure if I'd still be alive next time I came around
.
- 05/02/2010 03:12:19 AM
1678 Views
.
- 05/02/2010 03:12:19 AM
1678 Views
- 05/02/2010 12:20:04 AM
1758 Views
I don't anyone will target you with a night action tonight, frankly.
- 05/02/2010 03:14:26 AM
1723 Views

*NM*