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Yeah, no. What? Cannoli Send a noteboard - 24/05/2011 03:09:03 AM
Blame religion and politics on the lack of the seven kingdoms including the Riverlands. After some of the victories of Aegon the Conquerer the High Sept stated that is the seven gods divine will that Aegon conquer the seven kingdoms, there are seven kingdoms and seven gods but these gods are all facets of the same divinity. Aegon never conquered Dorne. Thus the Riverlands become a kingdom even though it wasn't originally.
As I understand the books, Aegon was not a follower of the Seven and he merely used the faith once he had their support. What is your source for this? I am rather dubious of your knowledge of the series given your garbled information below.

Now the Riverlands before Aegon the conqueror were never a "kingdom" they were lots of castles and lords that were conquered via the Iron Isles.
And before that they were a kingdom. Robb and Catelyn discussed the fate of the last kings of the Riverlands near one of their tombs in SoS. They were broken up in later years, but they were still a kingdom, and this does not explain what WAS a kingdom if the Riverlands don't count. You can blather about politics all you want, but there are basically seven major geographical regions, if you don't count the outlying islands such as the Iron Islands and those the Targaryens ruled before Aegon's day.

Harren Hoare also known as Harren the Black ruled over the Iron Isles during this time as well as the Riverlands and the terrority that will become Harrenhall. He didn't bend knee to the Dragon Conqueror and his impenetrable castle was vanquished with dragonfire. Aegon the Conquerer split the Riverlands and the Iron Island as two kingdoms the Greyjoys get the Iron Islands and the Tulleys, both being made into major houses for they weren't before.
Yes, that is true, but note that the Riverlands were ruled from a Riverlands castle, as House Whent, which holds it at the beginning of the series is sworn to the Tullys, and later, when the Lannisters grant Petyr Baelish Harrenhal, he is also named Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. Harren might have ruled the Riverlands in addition to his homeland, just as Robb later will, but that does not erase the nation as an entity. It's not like the Tullys and Blackwoods and Brackens and Darrys carry over Ironborn customs or anything. They might have been a conquered subordinate nation, but they had their own identity (hence the rebellion against Harren in support of Aegon). Those River lords who do not worship the Seven do not worship the Drowned God, but the old gods of the First Men.

<quoet>Now the Highgarden and Baratheons weren't originally great houses. The Highgardens the stewards of House Gardner become a major house when Gardner died in dragonfire, and the stewards gladly bent knee. The family name is Tyrell. Highgarden is the castle from which the Gardeners and then the Tyrells in their turn ruled the Reach. The Reach was a kingdom, ruled by the king who died on the Field of Fire, just as the king ruling the Riverlands died when dragons burned his Riverlands castle.

House Baratheon on the other hand was founded via one of Aegon generals (Orys Baratheon) a rumored half brother of Aegon who was a bastard (and thus part Targaryean via blood but not via name.) The general took the defeated Stormking lands as well as his daughter as his wife. Now king robert also has more Targaryean blood in him due to the fact his grandmother was also a Targaryean (and thus why he is king instead of Ned or Jon Arryn, Robert claim was better).
Duh. What does this have to do with the number of kingdoms? The Storm Kings ruled from Storms End, and the Storm Lands were a kingdom.

The 9th territory is the Crownlands such as the territory surrounding King's Landing and Dragonstone (Stannis island where Aegon first conquered and waited till his dragons were ready.) This territory was never hold via any kingdom for very long prior to the invasion and was always contested.
Hence not a kingdom at all. And Dragonstone was originally a Valyrian colony, IIRC, which the Targaryens held, and became the last outpost of that empire after the Doom. It was not conquered by Aegon, but rather he inherited it, and from there decided to take the Seven Kingdoms.

So via claiming the Riverlands and the Iron Isles as separate kingdoms Aegon could claim he fulfilled his divine destiny and unite the seven kingdoms as one kingdom united under one banner like the seven are one and the one are seven.
Aegon had no such goal in mind. According to Stannis, he set his eyes on the whole continent and sought to take the entire land as a whole. He was not a follower of the Seven Gods of the Andals, and only tolerated the Faith because they supported him. It was not until later generations when the Targaryens actually took up the Faith on their own. The fact that Aegon & his sisters named their dragons after Valyrian gods is further evidence of this.

Just ignore the failure to capture the Dorne like the Alexander failed to conquer India.

Now the Dorne eventually become the seventh kingdom and the Iron Isles and the Greyjoys demoted due to Dorne become part of the Targaryean kingdom via marriage. The kept the name 7 and drop the Greyjoys due to Politics and Religion.


Except I recall no support for the religious motivation anywhere in the series. Not only that, what on earth would be the motivation for the unifying element (House Targaryen) to promote anything that recalled the independence of the components? For a vainglorious idiot trying to promote his personal legend, citing his conquest of seven whole kingdoms might be a good idea. For a competent monarch intent on forging a unified kingdom under his rule, reminding them that they are originally different lands is strongly counter-indicated, as is allowing them to retain their geographical identities, which makes it easier for groups to secede.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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