Active Users:339 Time:01/08/2026 06:35:42 PM
The Kingdom Count has been a hot topic for years Werthead Send a noteboard - 25/05/2011 01:22:12 AM
For the books, GRRM's line was that Aegon 'set out' to conquer the Seven Kingdoms that exists on Westeros at that time: the North, Vale, Westerlands, Stormlands, Iron Islands/Riverlands, Reach and Dorne. And that's the source of the term 'Seven Kingdoms'.

So in overall terms, the fact that the Targaryens failed to conquer Dorne (first time around, anyway) is irrelevant. They still claimed to rule it, even if it was 200 years before this became a reality.

However, some people don't like the idea because that suggests that the Isles and Riverlands were still one polity under the Targaryens, when of course they were not. The Isles were ruled by the Greyjoys from Pyke and the Riverlands from Riverrun by the Tullys. So fans have rationalised it that the 'Seven Kingdoms' split the Iron Islands and Riverlands and didn't include Dorne. When Dorne joined, the Iron Islands appear to have been in a state of rebellion (between the First Blackfyre Rebellion and after the Great Spring Sickness they were reaving the coastlands), so fans rationalise that the Iron Islands were dropped from the count and replaced by Dorne. Though the Iron Islands were still a semi-autonomous region, they weren't included in the count. This is backed up by the goblet Joffrey gets from the Tyrells, and his suggestion they should re-promote the Iron Islands after their conquest of Winterfell.

GRRM's only comment on the matter has been something along the lines that it's an argument that trainee maesters get worked up over in the pub, but no-one else really gives a toss. The realm is called 'The Seven Kingdoms' but there's actually eight Great Houses and nine administrative regions (or ten, if you count Dragonstone separately to King's Landing). That's just how they roll.

In the TV series, they seem to be rather more pedantic. It is the Riverlands which is counted as a semi-autonomous region like any of the others, but they are not counted as one of the Seven due to them not having had a king for centuries when the Targs invaded. In every other respect they're the same. This is backed up by a further line in Episode 7 which even suggests that before Dorne joined they were called 'the Six Kingdoms'. Which is a weird way of going about it, but more power to them. Of course, what is said on the TV show has no bearing on the books at all.
Reply to message
Game of Thrones 1.06 - 23/05/2011 09:38:12 PM 1701 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 23/05/2011 10:00:57 PM 975 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 24/05/2011 01:08:53 AM 877 Views
That's who she is! Tonks! - 24/05/2011 12:29:38 AM 856 Views
the Imp's champion is Bronn - 24/05/2011 12:36:32 AM 1135 Views
I was very excited when she appeared. TONKS! *NM* - 24/05/2011 08:15:21 PM 355 Views
I was disappointed by the lack of a flashback when Ned woke up - 24/05/2011 12:49:20 AM 950 Views
Blame religion on the lack of the seven kingdoms including the riverlands, there are actually 9 - 24/05/2011 01:33:24 AM 859 Views
Storm of Sword Spoilers - 24/05/2011 01:38:02 AM 909 Views
Yeah, no. What? - 24/05/2011 03:09:03 AM 1029 Views
Re: Yeah, no. What? - 24/05/2011 07:37:16 PM 796 Views
Aegon converted to the Seven during the invasion. - 25/05/2011 01:14:04 AM 741 Views
The Kingdom Count has been a hot topic for years - 25/05/2011 01:22:12 AM 871 Views
Huh. I always just assumed nobody counted the Iron Islands. - 26/05/2011 10:03:30 PM 694 Views
Re: I was disappointed by the lack of a flashback when Ned woke up - 26/05/2011 02:25:36 PM 748 Views
Actually... - 02/06/2011 09:56:59 PM 815 Views
Here is another thing I missed entirely in the books... - 24/05/2011 03:26:28 AM 823 Views
Another great episode. - 24/05/2011 02:51:41 PM 790 Views
No, he was drunk in the book too. *NM* - 24/05/2011 08:17:39 PM 326 Views
It was a great episode. - 24/05/2011 08:24:20 PM 866 Views
Re: It was a great episode. - 25/05/2011 01:19:45 AM 749 Views
I feel very bad for Sansa. - 25/05/2011 02:47:07 AM 755 Views
I feel like I should. - 26/05/2011 06:45:23 PM 833 Views
Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 26/05/2011 08:53:24 PM 740 Views
Re: Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 26/05/2011 10:22:19 PM 768 Views
Re: Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 27/05/2011 01:54:21 AM 704 Views
Re: Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 27/05/2011 02:04:50 AM 726 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 27/05/2011 03:31:30 AM 342 Views
Re: *HBO spoilers in here* - 27/05/2011 05:13:20 AM 717 Views
Re: *HBO spoilers in here* - 28/05/2011 03:16:28 PM 762 Views
I agree 100 % *NM* - 28/05/2011 03:27:24 PM 335 Views
Re: *HBO spoilers in here* - 30/05/2011 08:01:59 PM 686 Views
As someone else who doesn't know the books... - 25/05/2011 03:24:30 PM 831 Views
Re: As someone else who doesn't know the books... - 25/05/2011 05:23:36 PM 787 Views
I agree - 25/05/2011 11:16:47 PM 767 Views
She becomes more ambiguous later on, not so much at the start. *NM* - 26/05/2011 10:06:14 PM 311 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 03:33:47 AM 821 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 01:13:01 PM 785 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 07:00:56 PM 753 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 10:07:30 PM 752 Views
I cant stand Sansa - 26/05/2011 05:03:26 AM 794 Views
Re: I cant stand Sansa - 26/05/2011 01:27:43 PM 779 Views
Easy killer! - 27/05/2011 12:04:25 AM 748 Views
well its good to knwo i have somethign to look forward to - 27/05/2011 02:59:48 AM 706 Views
Re: Easy killer! - 27/05/2011 06:05:39 AM 723 Views
That's not entirely fair... she does grow a lot as a person. *NM* - 27/05/2011 10:28:16 PM 334 Views
She grows a lot and advances to being tolerable - 28/05/2011 09:20:10 AM 648 Views

Reply to Message