Active Users:2006 Time:17/06/2026 05:43:21 PM
The Kingdom Count has been a hot topic for years Werthead Send a noteboard - 25/05/2011 01:22:12 AM
For the books, GRRM's line was that Aegon 'set out' to conquer the Seven Kingdoms that exists on Westeros at that time: the North, Vale, Westerlands, Stormlands, Iron Islands/Riverlands, Reach and Dorne. And that's the source of the term 'Seven Kingdoms'.

So in overall terms, the fact that the Targaryens failed to conquer Dorne (first time around, anyway) is irrelevant. They still claimed to rule it, even if it was 200 years before this became a reality.

However, some people don't like the idea because that suggests that the Isles and Riverlands were still one polity under the Targaryens, when of course they were not. The Isles were ruled by the Greyjoys from Pyke and the Riverlands from Riverrun by the Tullys. So fans have rationalised it that the 'Seven Kingdoms' split the Iron Islands and Riverlands and didn't include Dorne. When Dorne joined, the Iron Islands appear to have been in a state of rebellion (between the First Blackfyre Rebellion and after the Great Spring Sickness they were reaving the coastlands), so fans rationalise that the Iron Islands were dropped from the count and replaced by Dorne. Though the Iron Islands were still a semi-autonomous region, they weren't included in the count. This is backed up by the goblet Joffrey gets from the Tyrells, and his suggestion they should re-promote the Iron Islands after their conquest of Winterfell.

GRRM's only comment on the matter has been something along the lines that it's an argument that trainee maesters get worked up over in the pub, but no-one else really gives a toss. The realm is called 'The Seven Kingdoms' but there's actually eight Great Houses and nine administrative regions (or ten, if you count Dragonstone separately to King's Landing). That's just how they roll.

In the TV series, they seem to be rather more pedantic. It is the Riverlands which is counted as a semi-autonomous region like any of the others, but they are not counted as one of the Seven due to them not having had a king for centuries when the Targs invaded. In every other respect they're the same. This is backed up by a further line in Episode 7 which even suggests that before Dorne joined they were called 'the Six Kingdoms'. Which is a weird way of going about it, but more power to them. Of course, what is said on the TV show has no bearing on the books at all.
Reply to message
Game of Thrones 1.06 - 23/05/2011 09:38:12 PM 1687 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 23/05/2011 10:00:57 PM 959 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 24/05/2011 01:08:53 AM 862 Views
That's who she is! Tonks! - 24/05/2011 12:29:38 AM 840 Views
the Imp's champion is Bronn - 24/05/2011 12:36:32 AM 1115 Views
I was very excited when she appeared. TONKS! *NM* - 24/05/2011 08:15:21 PM 349 Views
I was disappointed by the lack of a flashback when Ned woke up - 24/05/2011 12:49:20 AM 933 Views
Blame religion on the lack of the seven kingdoms including the riverlands, there are actually 9 - 24/05/2011 01:33:24 AM 844 Views
Storm of Sword Spoilers - 24/05/2011 01:38:02 AM 893 Views
Yeah, no. What? - 24/05/2011 03:09:03 AM 1012 Views
Re: Yeah, no. What? - 24/05/2011 07:37:16 PM 779 Views
Aegon converted to the Seven during the invasion. - 25/05/2011 01:14:04 AM 724 Views
The Kingdom Count has been a hot topic for years - 25/05/2011 01:22:12 AM 856 Views
Huh. I always just assumed nobody counted the Iron Islands. - 26/05/2011 10:03:30 PM 680 Views
Re: I was disappointed by the lack of a flashback when Ned woke up - 26/05/2011 02:25:36 PM 733 Views
Actually... - 02/06/2011 09:56:59 PM 801 Views
Here is another thing I missed entirely in the books... - 24/05/2011 03:26:28 AM 811 Views
Another great episode. - 24/05/2011 02:51:41 PM 777 Views
No, he was drunk in the book too. *NM* - 24/05/2011 08:17:39 PM 318 Views
It was a great episode. - 24/05/2011 08:24:20 PM 853 Views
Re: It was a great episode. - 25/05/2011 01:19:45 AM 738 Views
I feel very bad for Sansa. - 25/05/2011 02:47:07 AM 739 Views
I feel like I should. - 26/05/2011 06:45:23 PM 816 Views
Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 26/05/2011 08:53:24 PM 725 Views
Re: Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 26/05/2011 10:22:19 PM 752 Views
Re: Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 27/05/2011 01:54:21 AM 690 Views
Re: Yeah, she's pretty annoying - 27/05/2011 02:04:50 AM 713 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 27/05/2011 03:31:30 AM 334 Views
Re: *HBO spoilers in here* - 27/05/2011 05:13:20 AM 701 Views
Re: *HBO spoilers in here* - 28/05/2011 03:16:28 PM 746 Views
I agree 100 % *NM* - 28/05/2011 03:27:24 PM 328 Views
Re: *HBO spoilers in here* - 30/05/2011 08:01:59 PM 669 Views
As someone else who doesn't know the books... - 25/05/2011 03:24:30 PM 818 Views
Re: As someone else who doesn't know the books... - 25/05/2011 05:23:36 PM 774 Views
I agree - 25/05/2011 11:16:47 PM 753 Views
She becomes more ambiguous later on, not so much at the start. *NM* - 26/05/2011 10:06:14 PM 302 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 03:33:47 AM 806 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 01:13:01 PM 766 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 07:00:56 PM 738 Views
Re: Game of Thrones 1.06 - 26/05/2011 10:07:30 PM 733 Views
I cant stand Sansa - 26/05/2011 05:03:26 AM 778 Views
Re: I cant stand Sansa - 26/05/2011 01:27:43 PM 767 Views
Easy killer! - 27/05/2011 12:04:25 AM 735 Views
well its good to knwo i have somethign to look forward to - 27/05/2011 02:59:48 AM 689 Views
Re: Easy killer! - 27/05/2011 06:05:39 AM 711 Views
That's not entirely fair... she does grow a lot as a person. *NM* - 27/05/2011 10:28:16 PM 327 Views
She grows a lot and advances to being tolerable - 28/05/2011 09:20:10 AM 629 Views

Reply to Message