We can even put that ideal to rest: SH brought Moghedien to a room in which Moridin was.
They are disctinct.
SH is the result of attempts by the DO to infuse Shadowspawn with his own direct will (personally, I'm rather convinced there's no new breed of DH... it's a ridiculous notion when unlike Rand we know this is impossible as Aginor was dead then, and RJ told us his genetic knowledge is totally useless nowadays as he doesn't have the technology to do anything.. if Shai'tan could create viable breeds of Shadowspawn, he would not have needed men like Aginor in the first place, and it's not only DH (fairly minor players in the Shadow's stable) he would have created new breeds of but all the Shadowspawn would have gotten more powerful... just imagine how lethal and far more useful than DH Fades that can't be killed short of balefire would be (and it's probaly the case with SH, incidentally) So I think the DH sent to Rhuidean were not any "new breed" but unique cases of DH invested directly by Shai'tan like Shaidar Haran now is (they were not sent by Rahvin either IMO - contrary to Lanfear's lie to Rand, Rahvin was part of a plan to capture Rand with her help - Lanfear was simply betraying Rhavin by pretending he sent the DH when the understanding between the four was that Sammael would be the bait - the DH, IMO, were sent by SG because Shai'tan was afraid of Rand learning too much from Asmodean and made an attempt to kill him, which failed). That is why they could not be killed short of balefire - Shai'tan was in them as the True Power and by his will and his grasp on their souls he kept "respawning", until balefire killed them before they died). We probably didn't see more "possessed" Shadospawn because they take too much out of Shai'tan, and Rand got lucky and discovered the way to stop those the first time....
It seems to me Shai'tan's direct power over the Myrddraal has kept growing through the series (their connection to Shai'tan is greater, maybe - and it might be just returning to what it used to be when the Bore wasn't sealed off). He's just invested massively more (all he had available, probably) into a single Myrddraal that would be a vessel for him in Creation after his early experiments worked. It's very telling that Shai'tan chose a creature naturally spawned by others creatures for which the TP was originally used in their making over natural beings in the Pattern, like humans. The Myrddraal are the closest thing to a real "Shadow breed".
The most telling thing about Moridin and Shaidar Haran is that Moridin is the only Chosen SH has so far left alone, and the only one who seems to work in tandem with SH. These two probably have much off-screen interaction (unless Moridin has a mental connection to Shai'tan as Nae'blis we don't know about, but that's doubftul), but so far we only see them work together but apart in complementary missions: Moridin spots Sammael doing something possibly dubious, SH follows him around to get to the bottom of it, and in the end Moridin is the one who appears to save Rand from Sammael (he might have be summonsed to go to SL by Shaidar Haran). Graendal might refuse to obey a summons to Moridin by Moghedien, so SH is around to implement a plan B to force her to come. He brought the mindtrapped Moghedien to Moridin as well. He punished Mesaana for refusing to even acknowledge Moridin as Nae'blis and ignoring his summons/orders. Moridin and SH worked together again about Semirhage - Moridin ordering Mesaana/Demandred to back off, SH finishing the job.
They are disctinct.
SH is the result of attempts by the DO to infuse Shadowspawn with his own direct will (personally, I'm rather convinced there's no new breed of DH... it's a ridiculous notion when unlike Rand we know this is impossible as Aginor was dead then, and RJ told us his genetic knowledge is totally useless nowadays as he doesn't have the technology to do anything.. if Shai'tan could create viable breeds of Shadowspawn, he would not have needed men like Aginor in the first place, and it's not only DH (fairly minor players in the Shadow's stable) he would have created new breeds of but all the Shadowspawn would have gotten more powerful... just imagine how lethal and far more useful than DH Fades that can't be killed short of balefire would be (and it's probaly the case with SH, incidentally) So I think the DH sent to Rhuidean were not any "new breed" but unique cases of DH invested directly by Shai'tan like Shaidar Haran now is (they were not sent by Rahvin either IMO - contrary to Lanfear's lie to Rand, Rahvin was part of a plan to capture Rand with her help - Lanfear was simply betraying Rhavin by pretending he sent the DH when the understanding between the four was that Sammael would be the bait - the DH, IMO, were sent by SG because Shai'tan was afraid of Rand learning too much from Asmodean and made an attempt to kill him, which failed). That is why they could not be killed short of balefire - Shai'tan was in them as the True Power and by his will and his grasp on their souls he kept "respawning", until balefire killed them before they died). We probably didn't see more "possessed" Shadospawn because they take too much out of Shai'tan, and Rand got lucky and discovered the way to stop those the first time....
It seems to me Shai'tan's direct power over the Myrddraal has kept growing through the series (their connection to Shai'tan is greater, maybe - and it might be just returning to what it used to be when the Bore wasn't sealed off). He's just invested massively more (all he had available, probably) into a single Myrddraal that would be a vessel for him in Creation after his early experiments worked. It's very telling that Shai'tan chose a creature naturally spawned by others creatures for which the TP was originally used in their making over natural beings in the Pattern, like humans. The Myrddraal are the closest thing to a real "Shadow breed".
The most telling thing about Moridin and Shaidar Haran is that Moridin is the only Chosen SH has so far left alone, and the only one who seems to work in tandem with SH. These two probably have much off-screen interaction (unless Moridin has a mental connection to Shai'tan as Nae'blis we don't know about, but that's doubftul), but so far we only see them work together but apart in complementary missions: Moridin spots Sammael doing something possibly dubious, SH follows him around to get to the bottom of it, and in the end Moridin is the one who appears to save Rand from Sammael (he might have be summonsed to go to SL by Shaidar Haran). Graendal might refuse to obey a summons to Moridin by Moghedien, so SH is around to implement a plan B to force her to come. He brought the mindtrapped Moghedien to Moridin as well. He punished Mesaana for refusing to even acknowledge Moridin as Nae'blis and ignoring his summons/orders. Moridin and SH worked together again about Semirhage - Moridin ordering Mesaana/Demandred to back off, SH finishing the job.
This message last edited by DomA on 24/07/2010 at 02:21:06 PM
Moridin & Shadar Haran
- 22/07/2010 08:14:27 PM
1783 Views
No...
- 22/07/2010 08:22:52 PM
1166 Views
Re: No...
- 22/07/2010 09:31:35 PM
1064 Views
Don't let her talk you out of it so easily. Give us the reasons behind your theory!
- 23/07/2010 03:41:00 AM
1008 Views
Re: Don't let her talk you out of it so easily. Give us the reasons behind your theory!
- 27/07/2010 04:00:26 PM
867 Views
Re: No...(en garde, Etzellius Maximus!)
- 23/07/2010 08:38:26 AM
1083 Views
I haven't seen those answers either so I'm interested. I don't think they're the same
- 23/07/2010 08:49:11 AM
952 Views
Yup, I think they are one and the same.
- 23/07/2010 08:21:20 AM
1344 Views
This idea is hardly vindicable
- 23/07/2010 09:12:14 AM
1066 Views
Au contraire.
- 23/07/2010 11:23:09 AM
1179 Views
But why...
- 23/07/2010 11:32:25 AM
997 Views
Again. RJ fooled you.
- 23/07/2010 12:15:26 PM
1074 Views
I think it would have to work this way:
- 23/07/2010 03:10:59 PM
1018 Views
Your reasoning falls apart right at the start, even though there is some truth to the rest, I think.
- 23/07/2010 04:22:22 PM
1114 Views
Um not quite
- 25/07/2010 05:47:22 AM
969 Views
I think your evidence is pretty weak...
- 26/07/2010 10:14:01 AM
924 Views
Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..?
- 26/07/2010 11:58:02 AM
1045 Views
Re: Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..?
- 26/07/2010 12:18:51 PM
1025 Views
Re: Why don't you answer some of the issues I raised then, instead of keeping it vague..?
- 26/07/2010 12:43:53 PM
975 Views
Frankly, I don't see any similarity...
- 26/07/2010 01:57:56 PM
1015 Views
Re: Frankly, I don't see any similarity...
- 26/07/2010 04:09:52 PM
893 Views
The problem is...
- 26/07/2010 04:27:50 PM
858 Views
No problem at all, but your unwillingness to accept the possibilty after all these years.
- 27/07/2010 11:38:10 AM
965 Views
I already answered all this...
- 27/07/2010 11:46:36 AM
978 Views
Yeah. And as proven earlier your answers are flat-out wrong.
- 27/07/2010 01:17:36 PM
1085 Views
Thanks for those answers. Here's how wrong they actually are:
- 26/07/2010 01:54:44 PM
1018 Views
No problem
- 26/07/2010 02:30:45 PM
1053 Views
Why the half answer? Here's my full answer and the questions you missed..again..
- 26/07/2010 05:14:00 PM
1126 Views
Just to understand you correctly...
- 26/07/2010 05:33:46 PM
960 Views
Sure..I'll answer your questions again.. "quid pro quo"?
- 27/07/2010 12:43:21 PM
1037 Views
Well, kudos to you, if that idea turns out to be right
- 27/07/2010 01:27:05 PM
989 Views
I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing:
- 26/07/2010 03:53:04 PM
963 Views
Re: I almost want the theory to be true, but one quick thing:
- 26/07/2010 04:18:40 PM
851 Views
One should also remember...
- 26/07/2010 05:06:36 PM
883 Views
Eh?
- 26/07/2010 05:30:20 PM
905 Views
But that the killing stopped, doesn't mean at all that Moridin and SH are one creature. *NM*
- 26/07/2010 05:35:02 PM
953 Views
Give me a better reason? Why did RJ make the timing fit and hid it so far apart?
- 26/07/2010 05:36:28 PM
991 Views
Not the same individual
- 24/07/2010 02:16:01 PM
944 Views

*NM*
=
- Oh and has anyone given thought to Hopper = Bela?