You're right. It is merely a plot requirement, made ludicrous by the ease of mastering these weaves
Shannow Send a noteboard - 20/08/2010 10:08:10 AM
Let's talk about some of the weaves that have been 'lost' since the AoL.
Travelling/Skimming, Compulsion, Balefire, Creating Cuendillar, Creating Angreal.
For most of these weaves it makes no sense how they got lost. I can see Balefire and Compulsion being forbidden, and once the Aes Sedai who knew them died.. Even so, even if they were forbidden, you would think some book somewhere in the Tower would explain them. Even forbidden losing knowledge forever should be obscene to an Aes Sedai, especially of the Brown Ajah.
Something like Travelling I do not see hot that would become lost at all. Every Aes Sedai would use that weave, and there are a lot in this day and age who can use it by themselves, so the theory that the Aes Sedai werent strong enough to use it is moot.
Maybe creating things from Cuendillar could be passed off as "well, most women had no strength in Earth", this is hairy at best because there are plenty of women who were in the Tower in Exile that could do it, Egwene being one, and Leane being another and Nicola and more. So it just got erased too?
Same with Angreal. You're going to forget and/or not pass down how to create them? Even if noone was strong enough to do it in thousands of years, noone will even write it down?
There's a million theories we could make say, but all seem weak.
'They were too busy to write them down'
' They never write a weave down'
' All the strongest died and noone's been strong enough in 3-4 thousands years until now (all of a sudden)'
None of those really fly with me. For one thing it seems like there is an immense amount of strong channelers today even though channelers breeding with channelers purposely has been out since the AoL. So does anyone have any idea besides just that it was more suspenseful and exciting for RJ to make them all get 'discovered' in this day and age?
Travelling/Skimming, Compulsion, Balefire, Creating Cuendillar, Creating Angreal.
For most of these weaves it makes no sense how they got lost. I can see Balefire and Compulsion being forbidden, and once the Aes Sedai who knew them died.. Even so, even if they were forbidden, you would think some book somewhere in the Tower would explain them. Even forbidden losing knowledge forever should be obscene to an Aes Sedai, especially of the Brown Ajah.
Something like Travelling I do not see hot that would become lost at all. Every Aes Sedai would use that weave, and there are a lot in this day and age who can use it by themselves, so the theory that the Aes Sedai werent strong enough to use it is moot.
Maybe creating things from Cuendillar could be passed off as "well, most women had no strength in Earth", this is hairy at best because there are plenty of women who were in the Tower in Exile that could do it, Egwene being one, and Leane being another and Nicola and more. So it just got erased too?
Same with Angreal. You're going to forget and/or not pass down how to create them? Even if noone was strong enough to do it in thousands of years, noone will even write it down?
There's a million theories we could make say, but all seem weak.
'They were too busy to write them down'
' They never write a weave down'
' All the strongest died and noone's been strong enough in 3-4 thousands years until now (all of a sudden)'
None of those really fly with me. For one thing it seems like there is an immense amount of strong channelers today even though channelers breeding with channelers purposely has been out since the AoL. So does anyone have any idea besides just that it was more suspenseful and exciting for RJ to make them all get 'discovered' in this day and age?
For logical consistency, RJ should have made it much more difficult to Travel, weave balefire, make cuendillar etc. Basically, the ease with which Rand's Blossoms of Fire, Deathgates etc. are copied instantaneously by the Ashaman, and the ease with which Egwene is able to teach NOVICES to produce large quantities of cuendillar and so on makes a mockery of the idea that these weaves were lost.
Travelling is the most difficult to believe of all. Even an average Aes Sedai should be able to Travel. And females can link to make gateways. So there is no way it should have been lost.
The mistake is not that these weaves were supposedly lost. The mistake is the ease with which they have been re-learned, and the large portion of Aes Sedai who are able to learn them.
A better system would have been one where weaves are like complex mental formula, or musical compositions. Where a ball of fire may be a simple tune - with a few dozen notes to learn - a gateway should have been like a symphony, which only master musicians can learn, or something along those lines.
And even if others can learn it, it should take years of study, not an instantaneous copy of Rand's Master Battle Weaves that have not been seen for 3000 years.
This message last edited by Shannow on 20/08/2010 at 02:06:37 PM
How were all these amazing weaves 'lost' ?
- 20/08/2010 04:33:43 AM
1841 Views
You're right. It is merely a plot requirement, made ludicrous by the ease of mastering these weaves
- 20/08/2010 10:08:10 AM
1168 Views
Re: You're right. It is merely a plot requirement, made ludicrous by the ease of mastering
- 20/08/2010 03:40:16 PM
904 Views
These are good points. To some extent, it may be because our main characters are "gifted" channelers
- 20/08/2010 08:57:49 PM
936 Views
The bigger problem is minor characters copying the weaves so quickly...
- 20/08/2010 09:14:25 PM
974 Views
Lost Weaves
- 20/08/2010 01:43:25 PM
1172 Views
Not logical
- 20/08/2010 01:50:32 PM
1147 Views
Re: Not logical
- 20/08/2010 03:22:04 PM
960 Views
All I'm saying, is that Travelling would STILL be a very usefull survival tool during the Breaking..
- 20/08/2010 03:44:59 PM
1102 Views
If you go back and read the descriptions of the breaking, and think about the 3000 year cycle
- 20/08/2010 04:37:02 PM
1014 Views
I don't think that creating cuendillar and 'angreals was common knowledge.
- 20/08/2010 05:06:20 PM
970 Views
You & Ryan make good points, esp on balefire/compulsion. In a shorter series, it'd make more sense
- 20/08/2010 08:52:59 PM
966 Views
Maybe Aes Sedai treated weaves like Intellectual Property
- 20/08/2010 09:49:12 PM
877 Views
Trademark? Patent? Or Copyright? =P *NM*
- 20/08/2010 10:19:36 PM
409 Views
If they are secretive and protective, it's not a huge stretch that knowledge would be taken into the
- 21/08/2010 10:27:15 AM
1007 Views
Idea?
- 21/08/2010 12:47:52 AM
807 Views
But they weren't too weak
- 21/08/2010 02:48:43 AM
900 Views
That's because most of the major people in WoT are powerful channelers.
- 21/08/2010 04:13:04 AM
1003 Views
How can you "write a weave down"?
- 21/08/2010 04:54:28 PM
977 Views
How did Moiraine learn balefire then? *NM*
- 21/08/2010 05:04:27 PM
1092 Views
figured it out on her own, don't forget that Nyn used it too against the Fades in TDR. *NM*
- 21/08/2010 05:12:15 PM
444 Views
That's a stretch - Moiraine never demonstrated any creative talent with the OP...
- 21/08/2010 06:15:01 PM
894 Views
OK, I'll buy Vandene teaching it, but not learning it from a written description *NM*
- 21/08/2010 06:35:46 PM
446 Views
I disagree - Moiraine's wilder tricks show that she is quite creative with the OP
- 24/08/2010 03:31:06 PM
907 Views
Re: I disagree - Moiraine's wilder tricks show that she is quite creative with the OP
- 24/08/2010 05:32:11 PM
1244 Views
We know of her trick with stones and light from 'New Spring' IIRC
- 25/08/2010 02:40:26 PM
1065 Views
Passing on useful survival skills trumped esoteric lore during the War of Power and the Breaking
- 25/08/2010 03:18:47 PM
1051 Views
