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Yeah, but... Zeratul Send a noteboard - 28/01/2011 12:53:26 PM

Not sure about that. First, Egwene doesn't count here, she's the Amyrlin, so she's the top Aes Sedai by default no matter the strength. Before that she didn't know the ranking system the Aes Sedai used.

True.

As for Elayne, since for now only Egwene is between Elayne and Nynaeve in strength among the Aes Sedai, whether Nynaeve is 20% or 3 times stronger than Elayne shouldn't matter in determining the level of deference required. At least as I understand the custom.

That isn't how it works at all. For example, Sheriam is slightly weaker than Elaida, so we see her showing barely any deference to her. However, Kiruna, who is around the same strength level, is much more servile around Cadsuane. While Cadsuane's accomplishments and legendary status can account for some of this, it isn't enough.

The amount of deference clearly depends on how much stronger the woman is compared to you.


Yes, but my point is that as I understand it, the main thing that matters is where the two sisters in question are in the overall Aes Sedai ranking of strength. Cadsuane is, as far as Kiruna knew at the time, number one, and Kiruna high, but only somewhere in the top 20 IIRC. There are quite a few Aes Sedai stronger than Kiruna and weaker than Cadsuane. On the other hand, there's only one stronger than Elayne and weaker than Nynaeve.

I've looked a bit for quotes pro or against this, but all were ambiguous, so I can well be wrong.

Besides, I don't think either Nynaeve or Elayne know all that much about the exact ranking procedure among the Aes Sedai. Siuan told them the basics when she requested to be Healed back to her original strength, and they know that the weaker Aes Sedai defer to the stronger, but apart from that they haven't had the experience and the knowledge of this of the others Aes Sedai and don't know many of the smaller details and nuances of the procedure. Here's an example:

WH, Ch.10

I’ve half a mind to order you—”

“Please don’t. I’m not Vandene, Nynaeve. Light, I don’t even know half the customs Vandene and the others take for granted. But I would rather not disobey you, so don’t, please.”
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Could Norla be the other woman stronger than Nynaeve? darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:54:36 PM 2553 Views
It's a nice idea, really newyorkersedai - 22/01/2011 07:04:03 PM 1581 Views
we don't know the strength difference between Cadsuane and Nynaeve darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 08:55:48 PM 1531 Views
Nynaeve is of course roughly twice as strong as Cadsuane... Shannow - 24/01/2011 10:26:49 PM 1653 Views
Still sticking to the nonsense I see... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2011 12:14:12 AM 1408 Views
you and your assumptions crack me up ... there is zero evidence that Nyn is 2x Cadsuane darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:41:33 PM 1486 Views
Waits for the candle flame vs. bonfire quote to appear... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2011 05:01:28 PM 1498 Views
*blows out the friggin candle* ... why does anyone take EoTW Moiraine quotes seriously? darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 09:41:53 PM 1469 Views
tGH, but I agree... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2011 04:58:08 AM 1593 Views
Re: tGH, but I agree... Sidious - 27/01/2011 07:29:15 AM 1346 Views
I think it's a matter of perspective too darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 05:12:29 PM 1305 Views
Nynaeve temporarily holds Logain shielded on her own, while 5 average strength Aes Sedai cannot... Shannow - 27/01/2011 05:35:26 PM 1270 Views
Another inconsistency ... since 4 women held a shield on Rand who is Stronger than Logain EDIT darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 07:47:31 PM 1357 Views
Not an inconsistency and if you analyse it... Shannow - 27/01/2011 08:21:39 PM 1591 Views
I'm not dismissing the quote I'm saying 6 weak women held Logain darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 09:21:34 PM 1375 Views
Circular logic... Shannow - 27/01/2011 09:49:40 PM 1447 Views
Explain to me how Moghedien is only 60% of Lanfear and managed to do anything? darius_sedai - 28/01/2011 06:25:28 PM 1710 Views
Easy. And I dispute that all 6 women shielding Logain were only 10% stronger than an Accepted. Shannow - 29/01/2011 12:42:54 PM 1405 Views
Not even gonna bother ... So many flawed statements in here it's not worth the effort to correct you *NM* darius_sedai - 29/01/2011 04:50:01 PM 700 Views
Wait... what? fionwe1987 - 27/01/2011 11:16:32 PM 1289 Views
Re: Wait... what? Zeratul - 28/01/2011 12:26:22 AM 1239 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 28/01/2011 01:24:18 AM 1310 Views
Yeah, but... Zeratul - 28/01/2011 12:53:26 PM 1418 Views
Therer is a direct quote in New Spring darius_sedai - 28/01/2011 02:20:40 PM 1327 Views
Yup... *NM* fionwe1987 - 28/01/2011 02:42:15 PM 696 Views
Thanks Zeratul - 28/01/2011 04:05:47 PM 1416 Views
Not really the case though darius_sedai - 28/01/2011 04:54:28 PM 1194 Views
That's your evidence? You mean like Caddy defers to Nynaeve? Shannow - 28/01/2011 02:29:46 PM 1355 Views
So Elayne is Cadsunae in you stupid play? fionwe1987 - 28/01/2011 02:44:07 PM 1258 Views
Getting hot under the collar and irrational again, I see... Shannow - 28/01/2011 03:01:14 PM 1206 Views
right tGH but still! *NM* darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 04:02:57 PM 660 Views
It will be someone who was alive at some point during the series... Shannow - 22/01/2011 07:11:57 PM 1551 Views
it's obviously a stretch, just a random thought darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 1539 Views
Strength in the Power and skill in the Power are not the same thing. Ghavrel - 22/01/2011 10:33:12 PM 1330 Views
true, but nearly 300 years ago when she was a new AS she had yet to learn that lesson darius_sedai - 23/01/2011 04:49:33 PM 1288 Views
Possibly? But unlikely. redqueen - 23/01/2011 11:12:01 PM 1328 Views
The 6 are... Shannow - 24/01/2011 10:09:33 PM 1641 Views
I disagree. If anything Semirhage is at the same strength level darius_sedai - 24/01/2011 11:10:30 PM 1421 Views
Agree and disagree... Shannow - 25/01/2011 10:44:26 AM 1351 Views
Re: Agree and disagree... Sidious - 25/01/2011 11:04:11 PM 1279 Views
I didn't say Semirhage is definitely one of the 6, but his answer leaves it as a viable possibility. Shannow - 26/01/2011 07:36:52 AM 1418 Views
I'd disagree with that statement. I think he definitively ruled her out with his comment darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:40:14 PM 1186 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2011 05:15:59 PM 1248 Views
Lanfear and Cyndane are the same person *NM* Vidarfe - 25/01/2011 10:24:15 AM 649 Views
I think Shannows' point is that even with reduced strength, Lanfear is still the most powerful RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2011 05:30:34 PM 1310 Views
Re: The 6 are... Sidious - 25/01/2011 10:51:40 PM 1490 Views
This seems like the most likely case to me, but Sommeryn is unsubstantiated to date darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:43:27 PM 1251 Views
I think there's a stronger case for Someryn than most women Sidious - 26/01/2011 05:07:03 PM 1352 Views
I agree that she is the most likely candidate, but there is nothing beyond speculation darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 09:45:27 PM 1222 Views
Talaan isn't stronger. She is the same strength and has been actively channeling for 6 years darius_sedai - 24/01/2011 11:14:31 PM 1375 Views
I agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/01/2011 03:56:00 PM 1262 Views
Possible... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2011 12:17:42 AM 1279 Views
none whatsoever ... purely speculating here *NM* darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:44:15 PM 580 Views
Not necessarily sleepinghour - 25/01/2011 08:07:02 PM 1213 Views
But that doesn't answer why a toothless wilder in a backwoods hut would have drawn darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:49:33 PM 1284 Views
nah Sidious - 25/01/2011 10:55:10 PM 1510 Views
it's obvious that Norla made her "earn" the ornaments darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:47:32 PM 1477 Views
Re: it's obvious that Norla made her "earn" the ornaments Sidious - 26/01/2011 05:17:16 PM 1449 Views
I can see that as a possibility too darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 10:22:02 PM 1331 Views
Re: I can see that as a possibility too Sidious - 27/01/2011 07:38:31 AM 1420 Views
we'll always disagree I suppose darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 04:47:42 PM 1383 Views
Strongest since the breaking? I disagree Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/08/2011 01:09:37 PM 1679 Views
I doubt it. Gher - 26/01/2011 03:53:33 AM 1343 Views
Could Norla be the other woman stronger than Nynaeve? ljgibbs - 26/01/2011 09:31:36 AM 1440 Views
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