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Yeah, but... Zeratul Send a noteboard - 28/01/2011 12:53:26 PM

Not sure about that. First, Egwene doesn't count here, she's the Amyrlin, so she's the top Aes Sedai by default no matter the strength. Before that she didn't know the ranking system the Aes Sedai used.

True.

As for Elayne, since for now only Egwene is between Elayne and Nynaeve in strength among the Aes Sedai, whether Nynaeve is 20% or 3 times stronger than Elayne shouldn't matter in determining the level of deference required. At least as I understand the custom.

That isn't how it works at all. For example, Sheriam is slightly weaker than Elaida, so we see her showing barely any deference to her. However, Kiruna, who is around the same strength level, is much more servile around Cadsuane. While Cadsuane's accomplishments and legendary status can account for some of this, it isn't enough.

The amount of deference clearly depends on how much stronger the woman is compared to you.


Yes, but my point is that as I understand it, the main thing that matters is where the two sisters in question are in the overall Aes Sedai ranking of strength. Cadsuane is, as far as Kiruna knew at the time, number one, and Kiruna high, but only somewhere in the top 20 IIRC. There are quite a few Aes Sedai stronger than Kiruna and weaker than Cadsuane. On the other hand, there's only one stronger than Elayne and weaker than Nynaeve.

I've looked a bit for quotes pro or against this, but all were ambiguous, so I can well be wrong.

Besides, I don't think either Nynaeve or Elayne know all that much about the exact ranking procedure among the Aes Sedai. Siuan told them the basics when she requested to be Healed back to her original strength, and they know that the weaker Aes Sedai defer to the stronger, but apart from that they haven't had the experience and the knowledge of this of the others Aes Sedai and don't know many of the smaller details and nuances of the procedure. Here's an example:

WH, Ch.10

I’ve half a mind to order you—”

“Please don’t. I’m not Vandene, Nynaeve. Light, I don’t even know half the customs Vandene and the others take for granted. But I would rather not disobey you, so don’t, please.”
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Could Norla be the other woman stronger than Nynaeve? darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 06:54:36 PM 2173 Views
It's a nice idea, really newyorkersedai - 22/01/2011 07:04:03 PM 1225 Views
we don't know the strength difference between Cadsuane and Nynaeve darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 08:55:48 PM 1157 Views
Nynaeve is of course roughly twice as strong as Cadsuane... Shannow - 24/01/2011 10:26:49 PM 1269 Views
Still sticking to the nonsense I see... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2011 12:14:12 AM 1069 Views
you and your assumptions crack me up ... there is zero evidence that Nyn is 2x Cadsuane darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:41:33 PM 1091 Views
Waits for the candle flame vs. bonfire quote to appear... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2011 05:01:28 PM 1120 Views
*blows out the friggin candle* ... why does anyone take EoTW Moiraine quotes seriously? darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 09:41:53 PM 1094 Views
tGH, but I agree... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2011 04:58:08 AM 1174 Views
Re: tGH, but I agree... Sidious - 27/01/2011 07:29:15 AM 1015 Views
I think it's a matter of perspective too darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 05:12:29 PM 948 Views
Nynaeve temporarily holds Logain shielded on her own, while 5 average strength Aes Sedai cannot... Shannow - 27/01/2011 05:35:26 PM 878 Views
Another inconsistency ... since 4 women held a shield on Rand who is Stronger than Logain EDIT darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 07:47:31 PM 987 Views
Not an inconsistency and if you analyse it... Shannow - 27/01/2011 08:21:39 PM 1202 Views
I'm not dismissing the quote I'm saying 6 weak women held Logain darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 09:21:34 PM 1021 Views
Circular logic... Shannow - 27/01/2011 09:49:40 PM 1085 Views
Explain to me how Moghedien is only 60% of Lanfear and managed to do anything? darius_sedai - 28/01/2011 06:25:28 PM 1141 Views
Easy. And I dispute that all 6 women shielding Logain were only 10% stronger than an Accepted. Shannow - 29/01/2011 12:42:54 PM 865 Views
Not even gonna bother ... So many flawed statements in here it's not worth the effort to correct you *NM* darius_sedai - 29/01/2011 04:50:01 PM 488 Views
Wait... what? fionwe1987 - 27/01/2011 11:16:32 PM 942 Views
Re: Wait... what? Zeratul - 28/01/2011 12:26:22 AM 888 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 28/01/2011 01:24:18 AM 979 Views
Yeah, but... Zeratul - 28/01/2011 12:53:26 PM 1028 Views
Therer is a direct quote in New Spring darius_sedai - 28/01/2011 02:20:40 PM 1001 Views
Yup... *NM* fionwe1987 - 28/01/2011 02:42:15 PM 520 Views
Thanks Zeratul - 28/01/2011 04:05:47 PM 1052 Views
Not really the case though darius_sedai - 28/01/2011 04:54:28 PM 843 Views
That's your evidence? You mean like Caddy defers to Nynaeve? Shannow - 28/01/2011 02:29:46 PM 963 Views
So Elayne is Cadsunae in you stupid play? fionwe1987 - 28/01/2011 02:44:07 PM 914 Views
Getting hot under the collar and irrational again, I see... Shannow - 28/01/2011 03:01:14 PM 874 Views
right tGH but still! *NM* darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 04:02:57 PM 465 Views
It will be someone who was alive at some point during the series... Shannow - 22/01/2011 07:11:57 PM 1165 Views
it's obviously a stretch, just a random thought darius_sedai - 22/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 1169 Views
Strength in the Power and skill in the Power are not the same thing. Ghavrel - 22/01/2011 10:33:12 PM 996 Views
true, but nearly 300 years ago when she was a new AS she had yet to learn that lesson darius_sedai - 23/01/2011 04:49:33 PM 980 Views
Possibly? But unlikely. redqueen - 23/01/2011 11:12:01 PM 948 Views
The 6 are... Shannow - 24/01/2011 10:09:33 PM 1272 Views
I disagree. If anything Semirhage is at the same strength level darius_sedai - 24/01/2011 11:10:30 PM 1038 Views
Agree and disagree... Shannow - 25/01/2011 10:44:26 AM 997 Views
Re: Agree and disagree... Sidious - 25/01/2011 11:04:11 PM 927 Views
I didn't say Semirhage is definitely one of the 6, but his answer leaves it as a viable possibility. Shannow - 26/01/2011 07:36:52 AM 1041 Views
I'd disagree with that statement. I think he definitively ruled her out with his comment darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:40:14 PM 839 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2011 05:15:59 PM 922 Views
Lanfear and Cyndane are the same person *NM* Vidarfe - 25/01/2011 10:24:15 AM 468 Views
I think Shannows' point is that even with reduced strength, Lanfear is still the most powerful RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2011 05:30:34 PM 995 Views
Re: The 6 are... Sidious - 25/01/2011 10:51:40 PM 1061 Views
This seems like the most likely case to me, but Sommeryn is unsubstantiated to date darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:43:27 PM 867 Views
I think there's a stronger case for Someryn than most women Sidious - 26/01/2011 05:07:03 PM 1019 Views
I agree that she is the most likely candidate, but there is nothing beyond speculation darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 09:45:27 PM 888 Views
Talaan isn't stronger. She is the same strength and has been actively channeling for 6 years darius_sedai - 24/01/2011 11:14:31 PM 999 Views
I agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/01/2011 03:56:00 PM 937 Views
Possible... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2011 12:17:42 AM 913 Views
none whatsoever ... purely speculating here *NM* darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:44:15 PM 402 Views
Not necessarily sleepinghour - 25/01/2011 08:07:02 PM 868 Views
But that doesn't answer why a toothless wilder in a backwoods hut would have drawn darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:49:33 PM 949 Views
nah Sidious - 25/01/2011 10:55:10 PM 1156 Views
it's obvious that Norla made her "earn" the ornaments darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 04:47:32 PM 1110 Views
Re: it's obvious that Norla made her "earn" the ornaments Sidious - 26/01/2011 05:17:16 PM 984 Views
I can see that as a possibility too darius_sedai - 26/01/2011 10:22:02 PM 980 Views
Re: I can see that as a possibility too Sidious - 27/01/2011 07:38:31 AM 1071 Views
we'll always disagree I suppose darius_sedai - 27/01/2011 04:47:42 PM 1011 Views
Strongest since the breaking? I disagree Rurouni_Kenshin - 19/08/2011 01:09:37 PM 1179 Views
I doubt it. Gher - 26/01/2011 03:53:33 AM 989 Views
Could Norla be the other woman stronger than Nynaeve? ljgibbs - 26/01/2011 09:31:36 AM 1068 Views
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