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If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow Send a noteboard - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM
Exactly what proof exists that Nynaeve is weaker than Rand at this point? There's absolutely nothing to say who is stronger. We know Rand has been using LTT's memories, but that's it. If they struck out at each other, he wins by virtue of that fact alone.

We have no clue if Nynaeve, who had been channeling far longer but was blocked, was weaker or stronger than Rand, who as a man would have greater jumps in strengths. But we also know Nynaeve was forced, and we also know Rand started out much stronger than other men seem to.

To take Egwene's hopelessly naive assessment as proof of anything is absurd.


You and Darius in your lone crusade have been determined to show Egwene as only a small step below Moghedien in strength. And yet, if you suggest even for a moment that Nynaeve - at only Moghedien's strength level at the time - could be strong enough to manhandle Egwene and Elayne together with such ease, while still weaving a dozen additional flows - after Egwene has already been forced by the Seanchan to MUCH closer to her full strength than Nynaeve is at the time, then your own argument falls completely flat.

If Nynaeve is able to exceed Rand's feats in tSR with regard to the two girls, then she is vastly, vastly stronger than them.

If Nynaeve/Moghedien is even STRONGER than Rand at this point in time, the Egwene is not remotely in Nynaeve's league.
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2479 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1420 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1523 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1395 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1411 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1250 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1501 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1221 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1363 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 695 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 620 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1322 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1245 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1314 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1318 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1219 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1306 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1339 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 1145 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1227 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1441 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1314 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1309 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1258 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1278 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1217 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 1095 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 676 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1262 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 1151 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1191 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1233 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 1138 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1387 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1284 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1227 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1219 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1281 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1319 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 1126 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1217 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1291 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1337 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1337 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1266 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 1120 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1369 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1140 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1569 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1274 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1509 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1277 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 695 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1126 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1146 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1298 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1174 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 1126 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 1091 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1415 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1328 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 1149 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1147 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1248 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 1145 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 1057 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1181 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1224 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1313 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 737 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1346 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1330 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 1151 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1244 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1221 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1208 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 1119 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 1115 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 1059 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 1139 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 603 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 615 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 1106 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1495 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1237 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 1144 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 736 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1210 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 1135 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 1150 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 1066 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1188 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1218 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1174 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1274 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 1154 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1165 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 686 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 606 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 1008 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1383 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 1179 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1143 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1306 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1227 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1432 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1269 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1223 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 696 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 743 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1203 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1170 Views
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