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Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow Send a noteboard - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM
All 3 are forced but Elayne and Egwene have far more to grow in terms of % of total strength than Nynaeve. It's clear that Elayne is maybe 50% of Egwene after Egwene's damane training, so maybe in the ballpark of Verin to Egwene's Moiraine. We see that from the text.

The Forsaken scoff at Moghedien's cowardice, not outright about her strength. Her methods they find contemptible not her actual OP level. The closest comment about her strength is Graendal's comment that Moghedien was jealous of anyone stronger, which actually alludes to her being an idiot since there are obviously so few people stronger. Moghedien has specialized skills and, but judges things on raw power where the other FS judge on skill... Lancer fought off an enemy more than 2x her strength based on skill... Moghedien, if she was more skilled, should have been able to do the same. Not one comment from a FS says that Moghedien is weak in the Power, only a jealous coward.

Moghedien has at least had meetings with Graendal off screen... Graendal tells Sammael that she believed Moghedien to be dead as she missed their last meeting.

Nynaeve channels regularly to nearly her maximum in almost every scene she's in, even well before her block is broken. There is no evidence that her block stunted her strength progression, only her skill progression.


Meaning that with Egwene forced to 50% or more of her OWN potential after the damane experience, she is FARTHER advanced in terms of growth than Nynaeve is by that point.

Again, our disagreement is based on your overestimation of Moiraine's relative strength to the Forsaken.

By having Nynaeve already at Moiraine's strength early on, you therefore mistakenly believe that Nyneaeve was further advanced at that point than she truly was.

If Nynaeve is 85 on the female ladder, and Moiraine is 30, then Nynaeve was barely over 30% of her strength when she matched Moiraine, leaving 70% of her growth still to come.

Egwene, in turn, was at signficantly more than 50% of her own strength after she was forced. Hence, Egwene is further along than Nynaeve.
This message last edited by Shannow on 05/02/2011 at 07:06:28 AM
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2443 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1373 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1465 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1339 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1354 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1193 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1438 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1178 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1316 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 679 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 606 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1274 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1192 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1242 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1254 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1148 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1252 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1268 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 1106 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1189 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1363 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1266 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1270 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1201 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1235 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1176 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 1046 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 650 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1219 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 1095 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1141 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1170 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 1090 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1344 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1233 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1166 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1168 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1220 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1263 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 1081 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1165 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1239 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1289 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1281 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1232 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 1085 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1315 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1096 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1512 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1205 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1461 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1235 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 677 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1094 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1105 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1225 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1137 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 1073 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 1046 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1356 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1280 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 1096 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1095 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1192 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 1089 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 1028 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1139 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1148 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1243 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 719 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1279 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1283 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 1100 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1194 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1153 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1166 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 1068 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 1072 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 1021 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 1085 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 580 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 599 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 1062 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1440 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1176 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 1101 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 728 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1160 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 1071 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 1088 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 1010 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1145 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1171 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1132 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1216 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 1098 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1121 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 671 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 592 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 966 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1328 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 1129 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1101 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1242 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1154 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1394 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1242 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1171 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 676 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 719 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1175 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1124 Views
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