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Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM

On the Bell Curve, the average strength woman would be on 50. That puts the average strength woman at slightly above Moiraine's 45 on your list.

Move Moiraine to around 55 or so and that's a problem solved.

And because it's a Bell Curve, it means that the majority of women fall around Moiraine's level in strength, with AS MANY above her as below her.

So, to put it simply, there should be as many women between Moiraine and Moghedien as there are between Moiraine and Dagian.

Nope. Darius and I sorted this out.

Because many women are excluded from being Aes Sedai because they are TOO weak, but none are excluded because they are too STRONG, logic dictates that the average woman is WEAKER than the average Aes Sedai, since 37.5% of women fall below Dagian in strength. If you add that 37.5% to the population, then the mean will inevitably be skewed to the weaker side of the average Aes Sedai. Meaning that only 12.5% of women would fall between Dagian and the average woman, but more than 12.5% of Aes Sedai fall between Dagian and the average Aes Sedai.

The Aes Sedai mean strength has nothing to do with global mean strength. The higher echelons of strength are as absent in their ranks as the lower ones are. They are in no way a representation of the global population of channelers.

For simple proof, just look at the novice pool at the beginning of the series. We're told that out of 40 or so Novices, very few were strong enough to be Aes Sedai. But, in the global population, 62.5% of the people should be strong enough to become Aes Sedai.

Clearly, the sample set comprising of women who want to become Aes Sedai is not an unbiased one, and therefore doesn't really show a bell curve.

To put it simply, the average woman is weaker than the avarage Aes Sedai. Since the average Aes Sedai is about two thirds as strong as Moiraine, that would put the average woman at about half of Moiraine's strength.

Nope. The average woman will be stronger, since when you measure the global average, outliers like Alivia and Nynaeve will be included, whereas there are no such woman among Aes Sedai. Thus, in the whole population of female channelers, Moiraine would be slightly above average at 55, but the average Aes Sedai at 35 will be much weaker than the average.

A good clue to this can be seen in the difference between Asha'man and Aes Sedai. The Asha'man go place to place actively recruiting, and have, as a result, a more representative sample set. You see that many more of them are strong enough to Travel, though among the Aes Sedai, this ability is rare.

Since RJ has made it extremely clear that male and female abilities are the same, on average, the number of woman who can Travel should be more or less the same as the number of men. But this is not seen among the Aes Sedai, proving once again that they're a sample skewed towards the weaker side.

Making Moiraine the strongest possible woman at double the average (which is 50 on the Bell Curve).

So there you have it. If the Normal Distribution (a Bell Curve) applies, then Moiraine should be the strongest possible woman on the planet.

So RJ was a moron? I'm sorry, but if that's the only argument you can come up with to defend your pathetic list, then you shouldn't bother.

What? I guess everyone from Cadsuane and up don't exist then, in your Bell Curve world.

RJ's bell curve world.

Your stubborn resistance makes absolutely no sense. You continue to place more value on an ignorant comment from Aviendha that facts given straight out by RJ. And then, while still sticking to that line of thinking, you use execrable math to "disprove" RJ's own statement! Ridiculous.
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2337 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1266 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1286 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1226 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1219 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1090 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1302 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1067 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1203 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 627 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 559 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1184 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1067 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1124 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1127 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1018 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1121 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1119 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 988 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1069 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1245 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1161 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1162 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1083 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1115 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1095 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 923 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 586 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1138 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 991 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1052 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1021 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 972 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1205 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1114 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1046 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1044 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1069 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1132 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 997 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1023 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1131 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1184 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1163 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1143 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 985 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1235 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1009 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1407 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1083 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1339 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1118 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 614 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 998 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1000 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1103 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1012 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 952 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 927 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1226 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1172 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 995 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 988 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1076 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 969 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 942 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1004 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1017 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1105 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 671 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1151 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1142 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 960 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1092 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1018 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1051 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 948 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 979 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 932 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 983 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 526 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 560 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 949 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1333 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1074 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 987 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 683 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1048 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 958 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 979 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 883 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1038 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1058 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1010 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1094 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 982 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1028 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 626 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 542 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 873 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1225 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 977 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1009 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1089 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1038 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1285 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1126 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1085 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 627 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 645 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1093 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1027 Views
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