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what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM
is not reflected in the Tower ... they are overrepresented by women of certain social classes which immediately eliminates a representative sample. I'm illustrating to you that the Tower has an inverted social strata ... proportionately there should be dramatically more women who come from squalid little villages or who's parents were extremely poor (as the majority of the population of the mainland is) ... in the Tower you see the % of women from higher social status than in the general population ... thus invalidating the possibility that it is a truly representative sample. It's closer to a reversed social strata than a true one.

3 Queens/Princesses (Kiruna, Moiraine, Elayne), Morgase (High Seat and later Queen), Elaida was a minor noble, there was one of the Kin that was a Noble as well, Daigain was a minor noble ... I'm sure if I dug into the text I could find several more without too much work. Leane and Beonin were both from families of great means as was Sieane.

Then let's talk about the fact that even women like Siuan who grew up in a city skew things further .... the VAST majority of the population lives outside of cities in this society ... not so with AS ... especially since the rural folk have such a negative view of AS.

Oh and we've got Amadicia, who just kills any poor woman who can channel and Tear where Channeling is anathema enough to stem the number of women (sparkers aside) from that nation that would even consider going to TV to train ... if she failed she would probably never be welcome home.

too many exclusions to use the Tower as anything even coming close to "representative". A research study would laugh.

Point is, Moiraine et al could easily be around a 50 on the Bell Curve, there are just a TON of women out there that the Tower hasn't recruited and thus the Tower sample is skewing the results of a Bell Curve distribution. And note how many WF and WO we see that are in the general range of Sheriam or higher strength ... odds are these societies find and train only the Sparkers or we'd be seeing a LOT more WF and WO in general ... if 400 WO was way too many for the Shaido to have in the entire clan of at least 100k people then we know they are not grabbing up latent women, or they'd have like 5000 WO.

If Egwene's plans move forward for the next few hundred years then the Tower will likely start becoming a true sample.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... Shannow - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2511 Views
Huh? fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1474 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? Shannow - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1587 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1462 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1484 Views
fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1308 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1555 Views
Bullshit... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1278 Views
Unbiased view... Nargs - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1420 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* Ghavrel - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 720 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 639 Views
Don't agree Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1363 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1288 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1390 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... Shannow - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1390 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 1293 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1384 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1405 Views
here ya go they were all Forced darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 1208 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1276 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1507 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Shannow - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1369 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Master Ablar - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1369 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1319 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1335 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1269 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 1164 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* Kieran - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 698 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1313 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 1225 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1251 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... Shannow - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1299 Views
How... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 1190 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... Shannow - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1430 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... fionwe1987 - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1348 Views
Got you now... Shannow - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1271 Views
You're clearly delusional... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1292 Views
You sound ridiculous Nargs - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1341 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous Kieran - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1376 Views
Ok... Nargs - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 1170 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1286 Views
Where on earth does it say Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did? darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:06:48 PM 1341 Views
Re: How... Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1386 Views
They're very close now... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1400 Views
That is unfortunately not true... Shannow - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1329 Views
It is... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 1167 Views
Re: It is... Sidious - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1415 Views
Yup... fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 1186 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1647 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1340 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1567 Views
No Sidious - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1324 Views
CLAPS *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 714 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... Shannow - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 1166 Views
Indeed Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 1181 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1379 Views
I agree with you here darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 1232 Views
I don't think that's true.. fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 1183 Views
the evidence is that Aginor burnt out trying to channel the Eye and Rand didn't darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:23:50 PM 1159 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... ˥ɐ ʎpu∀ɹ - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1470 Views
I think this is a no brainer Sidious - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1400 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... Shannow - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 1211 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 1206 Views
Disagree... Shannow - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1311 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 1211 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... Shannow - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 1111 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 1249 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... Shannow - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 1288 Views
Nynaeve's strength Sidious - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1380 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 756 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1388 Views
Minor quibbles aside... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1397 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 1212 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1311 Views
shrugs darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 1296 Views
Re: shrugs fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1263 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 1169 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... fionwe1987 - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 1175 Views
Thanks for clarifying darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 1119 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 1208 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 625 Views
Cool! *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 628 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 1147 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... Shannow - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1554 Views
well... Sidious - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1289 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work Shannow - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 1198 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 750 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1262 Views
Yup. fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 1205 Views
Trivial darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 1209 Views
Uhhh... no... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 1116 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... Shannow - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1228 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1274 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... Shannow - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 1241 Views
wrong darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1365 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... Shannow - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 1223 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population darius_sedai - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1242 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 704 Views
Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 624 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 1054 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1444 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 1245 Views
And a 1000 years ago... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 1187 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1367 Views
Circular reasoning... Shannow - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1308 Views
No, reasoning based on facts and what RJ said, both of which you ignore... fionwe1987 - 06/02/2011 07:34:21 PM 1490 Views
If you're going to ignore direct quotes, then we may as well stop right now... Shannow - 06/02/2011 08:42:40 PM 1307 Views
Agreed. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1276 Views
Agree. *NM* fionwe1987 - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 711 Views
agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 765 Views
off tangent question: Has Nynaeve yet to reach full potential or did she already after being ... Bookwyrm - 04/02/2011 08:39:29 PM 1237 Views
I think the general concensus is that after the CK she was forced to her full potential darius_sedai - 05/02/2011 03:44:29 PM 1230 Views
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