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Yes. *NM* fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM
is not reflected in the Tower ... they are overrepresented by women of certain social classes which immediately eliminates a representative sample. I'm illustrating to you that the Tower has an inverted social strata ... proportionately there should be dramatically more women who come from squalid little villages or who's parents were extremely poor (as the majority of the population of the mainland is) ... in the Tower you see the % of women from higher social status than in the general population ... thus invalidating the possibility that it is a truly representative sample. It's closer to a reversed social strata than a true one.

3 Queens/Princesses (Kiruna, Moiraine, Elayne), Morgase (High Seat and later Queen), Elaida was a minor noble, there was one of the Kin that was a Noble as well, Daigain was a minor noble ... I'm sure if I dug into the text I could find several more without too much work. Leane and Beonin were both from families of great means as was Sieane.

Then let's talk about the fact that even women like Siuan who grew up in a city skew things further .... the VAST majority of the population lives outside of cities in this society ... not so with AS ... especially since the rural folk have such a negative view of AS.

Oh and we've got Amadicia, who just kills any poor woman who can channel and Tear where Channeling is anathema enough to stem the number of women (sparkers aside) from that nation that would even consider going to TV to train ... if she failed she would probably never be welcome home.

too many exclusions to use the Tower as anything even coming close to "representative". A research study would laugh.

Point is, Moiraine et al could easily be around a 50 on the Bell Curve, there are just a TON of women out there that the Tower hasn't recruited and thus the Tower sample is skewing the results of a Bell Curve distribution. And note how many WF and WO we see that are in the general range of Sheriam or higher strength ... odds are these societies find and train only the Sparkers or we'd be seeing a LOT more WF and WO in general ... if 400 WO was way too many for the Shaido to have in the entire clan of at least 100k people then we know they are not grabbing up latent women, or they'd have like 5000 WO.

If Egwene's plans move forward for the next few hundred years then the Tower will likely start becoming a true sample.
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Proof that Asmodean's effective One Power strength is greater than Moghedien's... - 03/02/2011 03:22:42 PM 2309 Views
Huh? - 03/02/2011 04:08:29 PM 1247 Views
Why do you deliberately misquote the text? - 03/02/2011 04:12:50 PM 1264 Views
You're deliberately being obtuse... as usual... - 03/02/2011 10:07:09 PM 1200 Views
Right. So Egwene can shield someone of Egwene's own strength, plus Elayne, AND weave a dozen flows.. - 03/02/2011 10:26:27 PM 1202 Views
- 03/02/2011 10:46:40 PM 1071 Views
No. Egwene is very close to her full potential at the time... - 03/02/2011 11:44:20 PM 1218 Views
Bullshit... - 04/02/2011 12:39:42 AM 1048 Views
Unbiased view... - 04/02/2011 01:46:40 AM 1186 Views
The WoT Board in a nutshell. *NM* - 04/02/2011 02:34:32 AM 597 Views
Yeah, thats unbiased... *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:23:17 PM 552 Views
Don't agree - 04/02/2011 08:30:02 AM 1163 Views
Fair comment, but my question then is: - 04/02/2011 11:26:25 AM 1046 Views
I think the WO and Moiraine also Force Egwene as they know what's coming and need her - 04/02/2011 03:55:46 PM 1084 Views
It is specifically stated that Egwene was forced by the rigours of the damane training... - 04/02/2011 05:15:20 PM 1084 Views
Egwene has been continually forced... - 04/02/2011 06:02:08 PM 997 Views
The direct quotes contradict you... - 04/02/2011 06:23:03 PM 1097 Views
actually the quote substantiates that Egwene is only slightly stronger than Moiraine in TSR - 04/02/2011 07:51:10 PM 1103 Views
here ya go they were all Forced - 04/02/2011 07:59:40 PM 969 Views
Nope... - 04/02/2011 08:23:00 PM 1053 Views
I think you may have misused the term - RJ meant 'effective' to mean something a bit different. - 03/02/2011 04:40:41 PM 1222 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:30:15 PM 1143 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 05:45:30 PM 1141 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 06:31:34 PM 1067 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:06:50 PM 1093 Views
Re: I think you are mistaking what RJ meant effective to mean. - 03/02/2011 07:17:25 PM 1078 Views
We still don't know who is effectively stronger, and not sure if Asmo was equal to Rand by the end. - 03/02/2011 06:58:14 PM 900 Views
See my post above, I would say Asmo is Weaker than Moggy... *NM* - 03/02/2011 07:10:07 PM 574 Views
I'm not certain either way. I think it all depends on the terms being used. - 03/02/2011 07:22:01 PM 1119 Views
Effective strength means who can make the bigger fireball, the stronger shield, the thicker balefire - 03/02/2011 07:42:17 PM 970 Views
I still hold to the point that your analogy is false. - 04/02/2011 04:20:05 PM 1032 Views
My impression of your view, in general, is that... - 03/02/2011 07:33:37 PM 1000 Views
How... - 03/02/2011 10:15:34 PM 953 Views
If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:36:46 PM 1125 Views
Re: If Nynaeve could do to Egwene and Elayne what Rand did to them, then I rest my case... - 03/02/2011 10:50:57 PM 1074 Views
Got you now... - 03/02/2011 11:32:49 PM 1026 Views
You're clearly delusional... - 04/02/2011 12:59:26 AM 1027 Views
You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:05:18 AM 1051 Views
Re: You sound ridiculous - 04/02/2011 02:23:50 AM 1110 Views
Ok... - 04/02/2011 04:13:34 PM 976 Views
Elayne is not stronger than most AS at this point in the books - 04/02/2011 08:14:41 PM 1007 Views
Re: How... - 04/02/2011 08:34:21 AM 1167 Views
They're very close now... - 04/02/2011 05:46:48 PM 1136 Views
That is unfortunately not true... - 04/02/2011 06:02:34 PM 1122 Views
It is... - 04/02/2011 06:05:05 PM 966 Views
Re: It is... - 04/02/2011 06:31:32 PM 1218 Views
Yup... - 04/02/2011 08:20:33 PM 990 Views
Semirhage hated Lanfear, but dared not act against her strength... - 04/02/2011 08:29:24 PM 1383 Views
yet Graendal showed a lot of respect for Semirhage ... even assumed she was the most - 04/02/2011 08:53:05 PM 1061 Views
Graendal on Semirhage and Demandred... - 04/02/2011 09:23:50 PM 1323 Views
No - 04/02/2011 11:10:00 PM 1100 Views
CLAPS *NM* - 05/02/2011 05:15:21 AM 606 Views
We will just have to disagree on this one... - 05/02/2011 06:57:36 AM 980 Views
Indeed - 05/02/2011 07:38:10 AM 984 Views
I agree with you ... especially abou the perpective issue - 05/02/2011 03:00:58 PM 1076 Views
I agree with you here - 04/02/2011 08:19:35 PM 991 Views
I don't think that's true.. - 04/02/2011 08:21:38 PM 934 Views
Considering that Asmodean and Rand were using a sa'angreal... - 04/02/2011 04:55:03 AM 1205 Views
I think this is a no brainer - 04/02/2011 08:22:00 AM 1150 Views
The nice fact which is proven is the magnitude of the gap between Moghedien and Semirhage... - 04/02/2011 11:32:00 AM 973 Views
Nynaeve could be at 90% or 80% when she faced Moghedien we have no way of measuring that - 04/02/2011 08:42:03 PM 968 Views
Disagree... - 04/02/2011 08:51:55 PM 1059 Views
spin it all you like... I'm tired of this arument and your creative quoting. - 04/02/2011 08:56:14 PM 945 Views
The creative quoter is Fionwe, not me. You quote correctly, but your interpretations are way off... - 04/02/2011 09:05:43 PM 922 Views
Nynaeve has grown in strength, but she started nearly as strong as Moiraine! - 05/02/2011 05:35:05 AM 951 Views
Starting out at Moiraine's strength meant starting out at barely 30% of her full potential... - 05/02/2011 07:05:46 AM 998 Views
Nynaeve's strength - 05/02/2011 07:49:07 AM 1043 Views
Agree, Egwene has never been as strong as Nynaeve at any stage. *NM* - 05/02/2011 03:03:25 PM 664 Views
I disagree that Moiraine is 30% of Nynaeve. Much closer to 50% of Nynaeve. EDIT - 05/02/2011 03:02:06 PM 1131 Views
Minor quibbles aside... - 05/02/2011 04:05:30 PM 1120 Views
Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 04:30:00 PM 938 Views
Re: Agreed, the exact numbers are arbitrary, I place Egwene a tad higher than you ... EDIT - 05/02/2011 06:09:41 PM 1073 Views
shrugs - 05/02/2011 06:46:02 PM 997 Views
Re: shrugs - 05/02/2011 08:03:37 PM 1028 Views
I don't recall the Merise quote you are refering too and they have not been together in the series - 05/02/2011 09:20:56 PM 927 Views
I'm sorry, I meant the glossary entry... - 05/02/2011 10:29:46 PM 957 Views
Thanks for clarifying - 05/02/2011 11:12:19 PM 913 Views
Re: Thanks for clarifying - 06/02/2011 12:42:51 AM 962 Views
fair enough ... I can agree to Cadsuane and Bode both being 70 with Egwene and co at 80 *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:29:49 AM 519 Views
Cool! *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:18:52 PM 553 Views
Sorry, but here your entire Bell Curve goes up in smoke... - 06/02/2011 01:13:15 PM 928 Views
In fact, Moiraine is even STRONGER than I postulated in the above post... - 06/02/2011 01:22:11 PM 1315 Views
well... - 06/02/2011 02:11:02 PM 1053 Views
Only a separate Bell Curve for the Age of Legends - when the average strength was higher - will work - 06/02/2011 03:29:49 PM 972 Views
Or, you know, the Aes Sedai aren't a representative sample... *NM* - 06/02/2011 04:19:22 PM 675 Views
I don't think Strength was higher in the AOL I think there were just more channelers - 06/02/2011 04:50:42 PM 1027 Views
Yup. - 06/02/2011 05:30:54 PM 936 Views
Trivial - 06/02/2011 06:10:55 PM 959 Views
Uhhh... no... - 06/02/2011 04:18:19 PM 859 Views
Read these facts slowly, maybe you will grasp the implication then... - 06/02/2011 04:41:02 PM 1024 Views
you are missing the fact that women like Sharina have no interest in the Tower - 06/02/2011 05:05:10 PM 1039 Views
You equate random exclusions with the deliberate block exclusion of 37.5% weakest women... - 06/02/2011 05:41:47 PM 988 Views
wrong - 06/02/2011 06:08:20 PM 1071 Views
That is weak logic in the extreme... - 06/02/2011 06:16:46 PM 961 Views
what I'm saying is that a representative sample of the entire population - 06/02/2011 06:40:51 PM 1005 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:47:59 PM 618 Views
Yes. *NM* - 06/02/2011 06:48:00 PM 535 Views
But you don't prove that the undiscovered women are stronger. They may well be weaker... - 06/02/2011 07:26:27 PM 857 Views
Amys is far from the strongest WO! - 06/02/2011 07:37:14 PM 1192 Views
Explain the 1000 women they found in Murandy then... - 06/02/2011 06:26:46 PM 954 Views
And a 1000 years ago... - 06/02/2011 06:33:29 PM 987 Views
The only implication I grasped is that you don't grasp math... - 06/02/2011 06:21:12 PM 1071 Views
Circular reasoning... - 06/02/2011 07:03:53 PM 1014 Views
Agreed. - 04/02/2011 04:32:05 PM 1066 Views
Agree. *NM* - 04/02/2011 05:49:05 PM 618 Views
agreed *NM* - 04/02/2011 08:27:22 PM 634 Views

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