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The only issue is that Warders are not minions - they are honored junior partners. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 28/04/2011 07:39:18 PM
We see numerous examples of Warders acting as advisors and confidantes to their Aes Sedai, including being the voice of reason or contradiction. They might accept that the final say is the sister's, but the warder is allowed (and possibly encouraged) to question her and play devil's advocate. By standards of comparison, Moiraine does not really seem to have as light a leash on Lan as she claims. For many other bondings, the relationship seems akin to that of a commanding officer-senior NCO working relationship. The former might have the command, but the latter's input and practical perspective are welcomed. Also, considering the established social order of Aes Sedai relative to everyone else, plus the rule about not interfering in another's sister's business, the Warder all but HAS to question his Aes Sedai, because if he doesn't, who will? And that goes triple for an Aes Sedai of high rank, whom even Sitters might not be able to sway. All in all, there is very little basis for the implied position in your subject line, that Egwene needs him to obey and he has to learn to take it.

He wasn't sure what he even wanted at that point, so I thought it was appropriate that her letter was distant.

Honestly, he was acting as a tool and blatantly trying to have his cake and eat it too in the sense that he wanted to be her Warder, but he didn't want to obey her. He wanted to kill Rand in some grand moment of heroism, but didn't want the Dark One to win. He wanted to be associated with Egwene who was the ruler of the Aes Sedai at that point, but he didn't want to recognize that this would make him part of the Tower. He wanted to believe that Rand killed Morgase, even though two women he loves and another friend told him outright that this was not true.

He got a chilly response from her because he was acting like a whack-a-doo. I was glad that Elayne pointed out that he was becoming undependable and a liability in that his personal conflicts was undermining his decision making.


Though I admit this clarification regarding the personal situation between them is true as well. Gawyn WAS behaving very badly, as his sister suggested, and had serious envy issues (I wonder how much of the attraction to Egwene was based on some deep-buried, strongly suppressed envy of Galad - what they say in recent books about Gawyn's possible envy of Rand could apply as well to Galad who seems to be everything Gawyn wishes he could be, and lusting after the same type of girl or hoping to get the girl instead of Galad might be coping mechanisms on his part), so of all the characters who could get this short end of a stick, no one deserves it more.

However, where love comes in, people are not supposed to get what they deserve, they are supposed to be given whatever the lover can give. If we only got what we deserved, there would be no happy endings. Egwene's behavior has a long way to go before she matches up to the ideal of Corinthians.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Egwene vs. Gawyn (ToM spoilers of course) Cannoli - 28/04/2011 05:01:46 AM 4229 Views
There's fifty feet of crap between rock bottom and your post... *NM* fionwe1987 - 28/04/2011 07:40:04 AM 520 Views
Almost three days since the last post...at least I'm trying. Cannoli - 28/04/2011 12:17:59 PM 1045 Views
What is to discuss here? You hate Egwene and will spin anything to put her in a negative light darius_sedai - 28/04/2011 12:59:58 PM 1102 Views
As a complete outsider w/ no dog in this fight.... scalius - 28/04/2011 04:06:39 PM 1141 Views
Who said anything about him not presenting his argument well? darius_sedai - 29/04/2011 03:20:46 PM 1123 Views
Puns are pointless if the whole word is censored. *sigh* Cannoli - 28/04/2011 06:18:11 PM 1299 Views
But he's so good at it. all the pieces are in there and close to the right place... like a picasso. Onarishma - 03/05/2011 12:51:54 AM 1069 Views
Sorry about that... fionwe1987 - 28/04/2011 10:58:50 PM 1107 Views
I'd say there's no need to take it so seriously when there's so few posts lately. You should see newyorkersedai - 28/04/2011 05:59:19 PM 1015 Views
Ah, its always good to see a good Egwene rant. Bravo! NM *NM* AshaShan - 28/04/2011 01:58:46 PM 758 Views
Great work, Cannoli Zeratul - 28/04/2011 02:09:28 PM 1064 Views
Regarding the mother's permission.... Cannoli - 28/04/2011 07:26:29 PM 1129 Views
while i agree with you on most of this Yunalesca - 28/04/2011 04:53:06 PM 1188 Views
hmpf, i post a good point and nothing Yunalesca - 28/04/2011 11:09:53 PM 968 Views
Everybody agrees with you, that's why there were no replies *NM* Zeratul - 28/04/2011 11:29:13 PM 504 Views
Here's a scary thought redqueen - 28/04/2011 11:54:50 PM 1281 Views
OMGWTFBBQ!? Yunalesca - 28/04/2011 11:58:37 PM 1004 Views
you could say the same about a lot of the relationships in this series Ava - 28/04/2011 04:59:19 PM 1147 Views
I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series ßelals Girl - 28/04/2011 08:15:52 PM 1190 Views
Re: I agree there are plenty of underdeveloped and somewhat one-sided relationships in the series Ava - 29/04/2011 06:55:14 PM 1021 Views
Re: Avi/Min scalius - 28/04/2011 09:48:01 PM 1089 Views
A courtship where one side doesn't realize they are courting.... Ava - 29/04/2011 07:09:36 PM 952 Views
In regards to the letters... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/04/2011 05:28:13 PM 1240 Views
But Gawyn was not Egwene's subject Zeratul - 28/04/2011 06:09:31 PM 1044 Views
Which was why I thought it was appropriate, since he meant to act as Egwene's Warder. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/04/2011 06:19:53 PM 1002 Views
The only issue is that Warders are not minions - they are honored junior partners. Cannoli - 28/04/2011 07:39:18 PM 1164 Views
No, the junior partners are Accepted. Warders are essentially personal bodyguards and/or assistants. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/04/2011 08:00:17 PM 961 Views
Marriage redqueen - 28/04/2011 08:27:53 PM 976 Views
Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical Cannoli - 28/04/2011 09:32:22 PM 1211 Views
Here's the thing though... fionwe1987 - 28/04/2011 11:20:32 PM 1012 Views
No, but it's cute and quirky when Faile does it. Cannoli - 29/04/2011 03:06:50 PM 1178 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 29/04/2011 10:52:03 PM 973 Views
That's not really clear Zeratul - 29/04/2011 11:41:20 PM 1107 Views
Actually, it is... fionwe1987 - 30/04/2011 06:37:42 PM 1149 Views
Re: Actually, it is... urizen - 30/04/2011 11:17:21 PM 1001 Views
Didn't Siuan, Gareth and Gawyn tell her about the Bloodknife they encountered? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/05/2011 02:33:08 PM 1014 Views
Re: Accepted are not anything, let alone junior partners. Don't think N&E's experience was typical RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/04/2011 11:36:24 PM 1028 Views
My two cents: yes, a little, maybe, and possibly not. newyorkersedai - 28/04/2011 06:05:09 PM 1152 Views
Regarding your reference to another Emond's Fielder: What are you talking about? Cannoli - 28/04/2011 09:06:13 PM 1028 Views
both together, couldn't separate them in my mind - perrin's evasiveness or nyn's trickiness *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/04/2011 10:16:57 PM 527 Views
It isn't the worst romance in WoT redqueen - 28/04/2011 08:10:23 PM 1313 Views
Re: It isn't the worst romance in WoT ßelals Girl - 28/04/2011 08:25:31 PM 1233 Views
thumbs up to you both *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/04/2011 08:45:51 PM 492 Views
Re: It isn't the worst romance in WoT redqueen - 28/04/2011 08:46:37 PM 1133 Views
Galad is a great option for a political marriage Zeratul - 28/04/2011 09:04:46 PM 1005 Views
Yes, but... redqueen - 28/04/2011 09:40:39 PM 1038 Views
but galad knew nothing of berelain's closeness to rand, so that couldn't have affected anything mazza3 - 28/04/2011 10:12:23 PM 1077 Views
Exactly redqueen - 28/04/2011 10:27:04 PM 937 Views
Yes. An often overlooked point is that ELAYNE, not Egwene, gains the most power in ToM Cannoli - 28/04/2011 09:42:43 PM 1397 Views
Except... fionwe1987 - 28/04/2011 11:16:25 PM 1031 Views
Well... redqueen - 29/04/2011 12:14:42 AM 997 Views
Re: Well... fionwe1987 - 29/04/2011 08:39:37 AM 959 Views
Except they're both really hot. Cannoli - 28/04/2011 10:01:46 PM 1179 Views
They were naive redqueen - 28/04/2011 11:10:34 PM 980 Views
Re: They were naive Cannoli - 29/04/2011 03:18:42 PM 1293 Views
I can only quibble; Egwene became so insufferable in ToM I'm convinced her fate will be unpleasant. Joel - 04/05/2011 12:41:53 AM 1193 Views
Siuan... fionwe1987 - 04/05/2011 05:42:59 AM 1143 Views
Re: Siuan screwed up big time. Joel - 07/05/2011 03:35:46 AM 1065 Views
Re: Siuan screwed up big time. Cannoli - 12/05/2011 02:13:08 PM 996 Views
"McClellanesque", eh? I'll have to remember that one. Joel - 16/05/2011 12:12:23 AM 1273 Views
Good points all round (do you switch brains when getting into real world politics? ) & re: the Talk Cannoli - 12/05/2011 02:04:06 PM 965 Views
I remember being blindsided by "The Talk" in tSR beetnemesis - 12/05/2011 05:04:08 PM 982 Views
Thanks, (and no, you just become less and less astute as we move farther from fiction. ) Joel - 15/05/2011 11:46:41 PM 1322 Views
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