Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
entyti Send a noteboard - 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM
It's also confirmed there are corruptions in the Seanchan Prophecies. That verse was always very suspicious as its the foundation of a conflict between the Westlands/WT and the Seanchan, and the justification of the Return. It's central to the Seanchan - it's what they mention to point out the corruption of the western KC. Yet, falsely or not, Ishamael claimed once it was his doing that brought back the Seanchan...
The more reliable prophecy we have is that "He will bind the Nine Moons to him". "He" most likely referring to the Dragon, though we can't be sure without the complete prophecy.
For the other one from Seanchan, we've got different interpretations/wordings by various Seanchan. Some have said the Westland prophecies can't be right, because they do not mention the Dragon serving the Crystal Throne. Is this close to the actual wording or not? Does it specifically mention serving or kneeling - or something else that gets interpreted this way?
The imperial authorities of course worded it differently as the Dragon having to kneel to the CT. How reliable is it, when for people like the Empress you can only serve her by kneeling to her authority? There are many ways to serve, just not in the Empress's worldview, just like there's no way to serve the Seanchan people without serving their Empress like every last Seanchan (technically, even the Empress serves the Crystal Throne... she does it by being Empress, but still serves).
Tuon said Rand had to kneel before the LB, or all was lost. So that prophecy has an "or else" clause of some kind, confirming we don't have the full thing, nor perhaps something close to the actual words. how close was this to the actual wording? What's lost? The LB for everyone? The Seanchan attempt to reconquer the Westlands? The Seanchan Empire itself? We don't know.
The more reliable prophecy we have is that "He will bind the Nine Moons to him". "He" most likely referring to the Dragon, though we can't be sure without the complete prophecy.
For the other one from Seanchan, we've got different interpretations/wordings by various Seanchan. Some have said the Westland prophecies can't be right, because they do not mention the Dragon serving the Crystal Throne. Is this close to the actual wording or not? Does it specifically mention serving or kneeling - or something else that gets interpreted this way?
The imperial authorities of course worded it differently as the Dragon having to kneel to the CT. How reliable is it, when for people like the Empress you can only serve her by kneeling to her authority? There are many ways to serve, just not in the Empress's worldview, just like there's no way to serve the Seanchan people without serving their Empress like every last Seanchan (technically, even the Empress serves the Crystal Throne... she does it by being Empress, but still serves).
Tuon said Rand had to kneel before the LB, or all was lost. So that prophecy has an "or else" clause of some kind, confirming we don't have the full thing, nor perhaps something close to the actual words. how close was this to the actual wording? What's lost? The LB for everyone? The Seanchan attempt to reconquer the Westlands? The Seanchan Empire itself? We don't know.
In Aviendha's vision of the (possible?) future, we see a scene with the Aiel meeting with the queen of Andor. There, the male Aiel mentions that the Seanchan forced Rand to bow to their empress. This was, of course, generations after the event, so his understanding is only so reliable. However, it lends credence to him kneeling to Tuon.
Some other things to consider... corrupted or not, the fact that the Seanchan believe in their prophecy will make things very difficult. It may be that Rand will have to figure out how to fulfill both prophecies: kneeling to the Crystal Throne and binding the Nine Moons to him.
Also, Tuon's musings about Rand needing to kneel to her may have been something akin to the borderland prophecy, meaning that Rand failing to go through his epiphany would mean he would not kneel to her, meaning all was lost.
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aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!)
- 21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM
2994 Views
Thoughts...
- 21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM
1454 Views
Re: Thoughts...
- 21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM
1338 Views
Re: Thoughts...
- 21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM
1471 Views
Re: Thoughts...
- 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM
1388 Views
Mat and the madness...
- 21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM
1330 Views
Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad
- 21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM
1344 Views
Not Egwene though...
- 21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM
1147 Views
Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness
- 21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM
1130 Views
Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness
- 22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM
1228 Views
Re: Mat and the madness...
- 22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM
1299 Views
Rand's dreams...
- 22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM
1170 Views
She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney
- 22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM
1329 Views
Everything Egwene's little pea-brain does not grasp has always been a sign of madness to her.
- 21/05/2012 11:05:44 PM
1315 Views
Oh read the books will you?
- 21/05/2012 11:12:06 PM
1310 Views
I'd rather not. For different reasons, it's kind of painful to read those by either author.
- 22/05/2012 04:46:20 AM
1327 Views
What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn."
- 22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM
1214 Views
As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar
- 22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM
1378 Views
At this stage, all roads lead to Rand.
- 22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM
1157 Views
Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand.
- 23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM
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Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
- 23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM
1150 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
- 23/05/2012 09:01:10 PM
1304 Views
It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
- 23/05/2012 09:22:47 PM
1236 Views
Re: It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
- 24/05/2012 07:34:40 AM
1122 Views
Re: It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
- 25/05/2012 01:23:21 AM
1271 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
- 24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM
1297 Views
Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
- 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM
1562 Views
Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
- 26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM
1787 Views
Agreed...
- 26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM
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I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends
- 26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM
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Re: Agreed...
- 27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM
1190 Views
I think you're both wrong...
- 27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM
1186 Views
I'm sure that is part of it, but I very much doubt he is thinking in terms of succession
- 27/05/2012 01:41:37 PM
1122 Views
I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander
- 28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM
1204 Views
Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander
- 28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM
1156 Views
That makes no sense
- 28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM
1193 Views
Taringail was Laman's heir...
- 28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM
1206 Views
You are answering the wrong question
- 29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM
1120 Views
No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it.
- 29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM
1148 Views
Yet not one of these things actually happened
- 29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM
1160 Views
You're being absurd...
- 30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM
1123 Views
Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then
- 30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM
1147 Views
- 30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM
1065 Views
- 30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM
1065 Views
Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne?
- 30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM
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We don't fully know...
- 30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM
1000 Views
You just flipped your last statement
- 30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM
1250 Views
You seem extremely confused...
- 30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM
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Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have
- 30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM
1143 Views
Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have
- 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM
1304 Views
I am not contesting the information we have
- 30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM
1324 Views
You're impossible...
- 30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM
1133 Views
Re: Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then
- 30/05/2012 02:22:21 PM
1333 Views
See this maps back to my original stance ... Thanks for pointing out that Fionwe invented that
- 30/05/2012 05:09:14 PM
1073 Views
Good, now you have one last thing (a few inches long) to remember so everything becomes clear....
- 30/05/2012 10:50:33 PM
1104 Views
Re: That makes no sense
- 29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM
1286 Views
Only one other thing...
- 29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM
999 Views
No. If that was the case Taringail would have been King of Cairhien and not have married Morgase *NM*
- 30/05/2012 05:52:18 AM
689 Views
Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP
- 30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM
1149 Views
Bryne was First Prince Regent.
- 30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM
1058 Views
No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal
- 26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM
1011 Views
Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal
- 27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM
1093 Views
Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal
- 27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM
1066 Views
Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal
- 27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM
1262 Views
I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage
- 28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM
1179 Views
Re: I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage
- 28/05/2012 03:33:18 PM
1325 Views
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one *NM*
- 28/05/2012 05:18:40 PM
592 Views
He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon.
- 25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM
1441 Views

*NM*