Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear
DomA Send a noteboard - 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM
Elaida herself recalled that after her foretelling, which she kept secret, she made sure to attach herself to the girl who seemed most likely to win the Lion Throne.
The evidence is that Elaida "volunteered" herself to Morgase the high seat, and thus got "promoted" as advisor to the Queen of Andor when she won. There was likely no reason for the Hall to refuse to confirm the position, Elaida is capable. Advisors/ambassadors are normally assigned by the Hall (or it's subject to a vote of the Hall anyway, they probably don't initiate all nominations), as far as we know, and it makes sense it's the domain of the "college of Ajahs" as otherwise an Amyrlin would systematically favour people answering to her (it's one of those things Egwene has changed, she's negotiated full power over diplomacy against leaving the Hall final decision over military matters).
It's being demoted as Sitters and being sent as ambassadors to a weak and faraway Court Joline and Teslyn ressented.
The evidence is that Elaida "volunteered" herself to Morgase the high seat, and thus got "promoted" as advisor to the Queen of Andor when she won. There was likely no reason for the Hall to refuse to confirm the position, Elaida is capable. Advisors/ambassadors are normally assigned by the Hall (or it's subject to a vote of the Hall anyway, they probably don't initiate all nominations), as far as we know, and it makes sense it's the domain of the "college of Ajahs" as otherwise an Amyrlin would systematically favour people answering to her (it's one of those things Egwene has changed, she's negotiated full power over diplomacy against leaving the Hall final decision over military matters).
It's being demoted as Sitters and being sent as ambassadors to a weak and faraway Court Joline and Teslyn ressented.
It's the Hall and Amyrlin letter her. Can you imagine them letting Hattori or another weak Sister take the role? Important posts are seemingly always given to strong Sisters. The hierarchy demands such things. If Elaida or Gitara had been weak in the Power they would not have been allowed to act as the Advisor to the most powerful monarch in the land.
Gitara not only held that position, but later was appointed Keeper, which is another post we've mostly seen held by very strong sisters. Sheriam, Leane, Silviana. Duhara is the wild card here but that seems obviously a BA situation. Much like Sitters and Ajah Heads, the hierarchy affects these roles to an extreme degree.
As far as we know, multiple other factors are considered before strength in those matters (just like strength is only one factor in the choice of Sitters). Aes Sedai are not completely stupid. They would consider experience and skill, and a personality suitable to that of the leader. It's the same for ambassadors, not chosen exclusively because of strength. Verin was able to influence so much the Salidar embassy because she outranked all of them and not being part of the embassy she wasn't placed under the authority of its leader (who wasn't the strongest of the lot, the Hall simply put her in charge), then Bera and Kiruna arrived and outranked all of them again and took control. So clearly the women the Hall had chosen to be Rand's advisors were not the strongest available...
Now if you're saying that Elaida's strength was probably a factor in the fact someone as young as she was was able to retain the position she had grabbed for herself, you're probably right. It would at least have stiffled protest, if the Hall had any reason to protest, and mind you the fact Morgase accepted her as advisor while High Seat probably counted just as much. She may even have asked Elaida to stay as advisor once she got the crown. Elaida was also the protégée of Galina, so no doubt she had strong support from the three Red Sitters.
When it comes to politics/diplomacy, Aes Sedai don't rely solely or evem mostly on strength. Some of the Sitters are just above average. It's more that strength gives you a big advantage even there, but aside from Joline and Teslyn who were atypical as they were sent as advisors to humiliate them, we just have Elaida/Gitara as evidence a strong woman might be preferred for Andor, and it might have more to do with Gitara's strong personality than anything, and we know Elaida grabbed the position for herself without an appointement.
Misc observations from my latest re-read
- 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM
3120 Views
How does LTT know about Far Madding's history?
- 14/10/2012 08:29:13 PM
1672 Views
Re: How does LTT know about Far Madding's history?
- 14/10/2012 09:23:24 PM
1677 Views
Knowing the post Breaking history of the Guardians and speaking of the city as though he had persona
- 14/10/2012 09:56:55 PM
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How Stong was Gitara?
- 14/10/2012 08:34:43 PM
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So so stong. She had incredible stength.
- 14/10/2012 09:04:15 PM
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Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live
- 14/10/2012 09:22:23 PM
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Re: Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live
- 14/10/2012 09:36:19 PM
1242 Views
Not in the mood to deal with you ... Go read the Ages section of 13th Depository
- 14/10/2012 09:53:14 PM
1256 Views
Not interested in Linda's private theories.
- 15/10/2012 02:29:41 AM
1431 Views
Not my problem if you are that lazy. All the quotes you want are nicely organized
- 15/10/2012 02:50:45 AM
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Problem is...
- 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM
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Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear
- 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM
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Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities!
- 15/10/2012 02:58:19 AM
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Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up
- 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM
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Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up
- 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM
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Yet Morgase herself states she didn't consider Elaida a friend
- 15/10/2012 03:45:45 AM
1147 Views
How did Gareth Bryne get to stay Captain General, given his lack of respect to Aes Sedai?
- 15/10/2012 04:07:07 AM
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He was banging the queen
- 15/10/2012 04:19:24 AM
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And what Aes Sedai gave him permission to bang the queen?
- 15/10/2012 04:30:42 AM
1469 Views
here ya go
- 15/10/2012 04:39:29 AM
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Re: Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities!
- 15/10/2012 10:38:16 AM
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Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear
- 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM
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The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all
- 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM
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IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR
- 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM
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Nope. Every other advisor we've seen has been sent from TV
- 15/10/2012 03:50:07 AM
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Those are not official advisers, those are ambassadors!
- 15/10/2012 04:17:51 AM
1305 Views
So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower?
- 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM
1237 Views
She didn't "land it". She took the job for herself...
- 15/10/2012 04:00:35 AM
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Actually every advisor we've seen except Elaida has been appointed
- 15/10/2012 04:11:39 AM
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You can bully someone into an act, not a twenty year relationship
- 15/10/2012 04:22:16 AM
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Not arguing that Morgase had a problem with her
- 15/10/2012 04:33:10 AM
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We know nothing of the sort.
- 15/10/2012 05:14:54 AM
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Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned
- 15/10/2012 05:39:23 AM
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Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned
- 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM
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Egwene said otherwise DomA,...
- 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM
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And an answer to the rest of your "points"
- 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM
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Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy
- 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM
1250 Views
The burden of proof is on you to make your points. There is nothing in the books.
- 15/10/2012 03:01:46 AM
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You mean the only way she could avoid become Queen was to flee?
- 15/10/2012 03:30:26 AM
1301 Views
And never ever face discipline or punishment for fleeing? Outside the Tower, she was on her own.
- 15/10/2012 03:40:23 AM
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I'm not using her theory, I'm saying she posted all the damn quotes in one place
- 15/10/2012 03:57:00 AM
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You don't see how evading the Tower's authority for 10 years undermines YOUR position?
- 15/10/2012 05:21:29 AM
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Nope. It substantiates that the Tower will exert itself to ensure its Political standing
- 15/10/2012 05:41:33 AM
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Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote:
- 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM
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Okay, but that's still irrelevant to the Oath Rod & its cutoff period or method, as well as lifespan
- 15/10/2012 04:54:26 AM
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To quote you RTDB
- 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM
1177 Views
And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page
*NM*
- 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM
732 Views
*NM*
- 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM
732 Views
How old was Lanfear?
- 14/10/2012 08:41:35 PM
1293 Views
Re: How old was Lanfear?
- 14/10/2012 11:27:12 PM
1329 Views
I couldn't find it
- 15/10/2012 12:22:43 AM
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It's in the Fires of Heaven, when Lanfear visits Rand and he remembers her as Mierin. *NM*
- 20/10/2012 04:19:09 AM
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Are the Seanchan prophesies false?
- 14/10/2012 08:43:55 PM
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I've only been saying no for years.
- 14/10/2012 09:21:43 PM
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Not the same thing
- 14/10/2012 09:44:43 PM
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Show me some damn PROOF already!!
- 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM
1398 Views
I believe DomA covered this in his post
- 15/10/2012 03:31:54 AM
1208 Views
Illogic, arguments from (false) authority and now ad hominem attacks.
- 15/10/2012 03:46:49 AM
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I just don't see the point of an argument with someone who has already been proven wrong
- 15/10/2012 03:59:19 AM
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The frequently-confessing-ignorance, can't-keep-track-of-what-he-wrote ghostwriter, you mean.
- 15/10/2012 05:28:50 AM
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Touché ... But to DomA's point we'll likely get some resolution in AMoL *NM*
- 15/10/2012 05:53:14 AM
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Your argument is based on a faulty premise.
- 15/10/2012 08:11:19 PM
1095 Views
That could also mean the same KC prophesies were is Seanchan before Luthair came along
- 16/10/2012 12:54:07 AM
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Of course there is truth...
- 14/10/2012 09:42:24 PM
1327 Views
Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing
- 14/10/2012 10:02:40 PM
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Re: Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing
- 14/10/2012 10:23:17 PM
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Hmmm ...I like it! It is actually very similar to what Nynaeve does
- 14/10/2012 10:31:48 PM
1364 Views
How do the Black Ajah not figure out who the others are?
- 14/10/2012 08:48:14 PM
1294 Views
Who says they can't?
- 14/10/2012 09:23:11 PM
1284 Views
True to a point
- 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM
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Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC.
- 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM
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Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC.
- 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM
1285 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC?
- 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM
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Galina isn't young. *NM*
- 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM
800 Views
Yes she is
- 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM
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85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS"
- 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM
1262 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO
- 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM
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You mean the SC?
- 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM
1291 Views
No others meet as well
- 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM
1285 Views
Re: No others meet as well
- 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM
1262 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating
- 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM
1130 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating
- 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM
1254 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups
- 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM
1180 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups
- 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM
1321 Views
I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve
- 15/10/2012 03:01:20 PM
1114 Views
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve
- 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1416 Views
I have a different opinion of Delana
- 16/10/2012 01:20:32 AM
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Re: I have a different opinion of Delana
- 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM
1193 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC
- 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM
1250 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC
- 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM
1136 Views
Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts
- 18/10/2012 06:57:38 PM
1276 Views
Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts
- 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM
1191 Views
Not a good plan, I'll give you that
- 18/10/2012 07:37:45 PM
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*sigh*
- 18/10/2012 08:25:23 PM
1255 Views
*double sigh*
- 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM
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Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC
- 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM
1306 Views
Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail
- 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM
1311 Views
Surely, in part, this is how Verin figured out who the Black Ajah was
- 15/10/2012 05:10:25 PM
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Is there a Dark Friend WO?
- 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM
1368 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well
- 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM
1152 Views
Just a note about Bair
- 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM
1273 Views
The traps were defeated by Elza before freed Semirhage
- 18/10/2012 02:53:17 PM
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Re: The traps were defeated by Elza before freed Semirhage
- 18/10/2012 07:06:13 PM
1448 Views
Sorilea would have not been able to disarm Cadsuane's wards. Both inverted and likely too strong
- 18/10/2012 07:35:22 PM
1191 Views
No, she would not have been able to (nor even see them to report about them)
- 18/10/2012 09:32:38 PM
1265 Views
Verin's goal was to dig out the BA. A WO would have been nothing more than a momentary
- 19/10/2012 04:11:51 AM
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I don't see how it could be possible
- 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM
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It's certainly possible, though it might contribute to making it rather rare
- 23/10/2012 10:55:07 PM
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good point especially when you consider the Aiel view on pain and death
- 25/10/2012 06:14:40 PM
1091 Views
Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers?
- 14/10/2012 10:47:55 PM
1439 Views
Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers?
- 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM
1390 Views
Totally pointless, just looking to spark some conversation on the board!
- 15/10/2012 12:23:34 AM
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But how often in real life does that happen? Alanis Morissette taught us about death row pardons *NM*
- 17/10/2012 12:27:45 AM
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