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Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned DomA Send a noteboard - 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM
Elaida as an AS is automatically a high ranking official and anything she says will be seen as sanctioned by the Tower.



You seem to put in the same bag the Aes Sedai advisors and the the Tower ambassadors to rulers. This isn't the same function at all.

The ambassadors are officials sent by the Amyrlin/Hall for specifics reasons and acting as the Tower's spokespersons. Everyone of them, of course, is appointed by the Tower.

Aes Sedai advisors are sisters who attach themselves to nobles or rulers, serving them as advisors, and occasionally representing their interests in Tar Valon. We don't know that the Tower appoints them, and several examples suggest otherwise:

- The few times Elaida spoke of the issue, she always spoke of this as her own initiative. using turns of phrase as "she attached herself to Morgase", "she gained Morgase's trust" etc. Elaida never even hinted that she had to convince Tar Valon to let her have the position.

- Elayne knows the Andoran ways, and she is also Tower trained. She clearly believes it's her prerogative to choose an AS advisor. That too speaks of knowledge that Morgase chose Elaida.

- Elaida didn't appoint anyone to present herself as "Rand's advisor".

- The Rebel Hall didn't pick anyone in the embassy to be Rand's advisor.

- Neither the Rebel Hall nor Elaida appointed anyone to be Tylin's permanent advisor. They sent her temporary ambassadors. Again, this suggests it would have been Tylin's choice to ask of one the sisters to join her court as advisor.

- Rand simply asked Cadsuane to be his advisor.

As far as we know, only five rulers have picked an AS to act as permanent advisors, those of Arafel, Kandor, Shienar, Andor and Mayenne. The others dealt with official Tower envoys.

Having a ruler strike a trust relationship with any sister and ask her to be advisor is a diplomatic victory for the Tower. The Tower is fairly unlikely to interfere with sisters who managed that. Evidence of that is that Tamra Ospenya let Morgase pick Elaida as her advisor, despite the fact Elaida was a Red and barely raised and still very inexperienced in politics, no matter her strength. It was simply the woman Morgase wanted, and it was probably thought that being almost of an age, these two could develop a good relationship.




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Misc observations from my latest re-read darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM 2977 Views
How does LTT know about Far Madding's history? darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 08:29:13 PM 1540 Views
Re: How does LTT know about Far Madding's history? DomA - 14/10/2012 09:23:24 PM 1562 Views
Knowing the post Breaking history of the Guardians and speaking of the city as though he had persona darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 09:56:55 PM 1274 Views
Re: Knowing the post Breaking history of the Guardians DomA - 14/10/2012 11:12:05 PM 1362 Views
How Stong was Gitara? darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 08:34:43 PM 1481 Views
So so stong. She had incredible stength. Cannoli - 14/10/2012 09:04:15 PM 1516 Views
Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 09:22:23 PM 1317 Views
Re: Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live Cannoli - 14/10/2012 09:36:19 PM 1130 Views
Not in the mood to deal with you ... Go read the Ages section of 13th Depository darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 09:53:14 PM 1141 Views
Not interested in Linda's private theories. Cannoli - 15/10/2012 02:29:41 AM 1275 Views
Not my problem if you are that lazy. All the quotes you want are nicely organized darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 02:50:45 AM 1142 Views
And there's Sorilea... DomA - 15/10/2012 02:53:15 AM 1354 Views
Perhaps, but Bair is in her 80s and can't channel at all darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:09:35 AM 1107 Views
Problem is... DomA - 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM 1250 Views
Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM 1103 Views
Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities! Cannoli - 15/10/2012 02:58:19 AM 1120 Views
Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1053 Views
Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up Cannoli - 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM 1187 Views
Yet Morgase herself states she didn't consider Elaida a friend darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:45:45 AM 1047 Views
How did Gareth Bryne get to stay Captain General, given his lack of respect to Aes Sedai? Cannoli - 15/10/2012 04:07:07 AM 1144 Views
He was banging the queen darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:19:24 AM 1064 Views
And what Aes Sedai gave him permission to bang the queen? Cannoli - 15/10/2012 04:30:42 AM 1351 Views
here ya go darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:39:29 AM 1185 Views
There's an awful lot for "not many" Cannoli - 15/10/2012 05:07:30 AM 1097 Views
When did I say I bought into Linda's theories? darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 05:29:27 AM 1053 Views
Re: Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities! Sidious - 15/10/2012 10:38:16 AM 990 Views
Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear DomA - 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM 1181 Views
The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM 1121 Views
IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR Cannoli - 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM 1125 Views
Nope. Every other advisor we've seen has been sent from TV darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:50:07 AM 1091 Views
Those are not official advisers, those are ambassadors! Cannoli - 15/10/2012 04:17:51 AM 1155 Views
So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower? darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM 1106 Views
Finally! I was beginning to despair of your literacy! Cannoli - 15/10/2012 04:34:18 AM 1158 Views
now I am questioning your literacy *NM* darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:40:45 AM 736 Views
She didn't "land it". She took the job for herself... DomA - 15/10/2012 04:00:35 AM 1108 Views
Actually every advisor we've seen except Elaida has been appointed darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:11:39 AM 1130 Views
You can bully someone into an act, not a twenty year relationship Cannoli - 15/10/2012 04:22:16 AM 1236 Views
Not arguing that Morgase had a problem with her darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:33:10 AM 1068 Views
We know nothing of the sort. Cannoli - 15/10/2012 05:14:54 AM 1061 Views
Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 05:39:23 AM 1152 Views
Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned DomA - 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM 1179 Views
Egwene said otherwise DomA,... fionwe1987 - 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM 1137 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... DomA - 17/10/2012 01:01:47 PM 1217 Views
Just to be clear darius_sedai - 17/10/2012 03:58:58 PM 1051 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... fionwe1987 - 18/10/2012 01:23:48 AM 1141 Views
Elayne's thoughts about this Zeratul - 17/10/2012 04:16:38 PM 1100 Views
And an answer to the rest of your "points" Cannoli - 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM 1321 Views
Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM 1102 Views
The burden of proof is on you to make your points. There is nothing in the books. Cannoli - 15/10/2012 03:01:46 AM 1132 Views
You mean the only way she could avoid become Queen was to flee? darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:30:26 AM 1144 Views
And never ever face discipline or punishment for fleeing? Outside the Tower, she was on her own. Cannoli - 15/10/2012 03:40:23 AM 1101 Views
I'm not using her theory, I'm saying she posted all the damn quotes in one place darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:57:00 AM 1106 Views
You don't see how evading the Tower's authority for 10 years undermines YOUR position? Cannoli - 15/10/2012 05:21:29 AM 1017 Views
Nope. It substantiates that the Tower will exert itself to ensure its Political standing darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 05:41:33 AM 1076 Views
Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote: fionwe1987 - 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM 1196 Views
Okay, but that's still irrelevant to the Oath Rod & its cutoff period or method, as well as lifespan Cannoli - 15/10/2012 04:54:26 AM 1084 Views
To quote you RTDB darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM 1047 Views
Re: To quote you RTDB Cannoli - 15/10/2012 05:27:47 AM 1123 Views
Some people look young. darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 05:51:25 AM 1019 Views
I never mentioned the OR... fionwe1987 - 16/10/2012 01:38:48 AM 1132 Views
RJ said Sharina would go back to about middle aged darius_sedai - 16/10/2012 02:23:21 AM 941 Views
And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page *NM* darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM 652 Views
Told you so. *NM* Cannoli - 15/10/2012 05:21:58 AM 749 Views
I think so. linda_sedai - 16/11/2012 11:40:17 AM 1271 Views
Aging Kieran - 15/10/2012 06:08:47 PM 1195 Views
How old was Lanfear? darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 08:41:35 PM 1179 Views
Re: How old was Lanfear? DomA - 14/10/2012 11:27:12 PM 1223 Views
I couldn't find it darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 12:22:43 AM 1122 Views
It's in the Fires of Heaven, when Lanfear visits Rand and he remembers her as Mierin. *NM* ImmanuelXavier - 20/10/2012 04:19:09 AM 746 Views
Are the Seanchan prophesies false? darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 08:43:55 PM 1277 Views
I've only been saying no for years. Cannoli - 14/10/2012 09:21:43 PM 1336 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 09:44:43 PM 1114 Views
Show me some damn PROOF already!! Cannoli - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1284 Views
I believe DomA covered this in his post darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:31:54 AM 1082 Views
Illogic, arguments from (false) authority and now ad hominem attacks. Cannoli - 15/10/2012 03:46:49 AM 1080 Views
I just don't see the point of an argument with someone who has already been proven wrong darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:59:19 AM 1101 Views
The frequently-confessing-ignorance, can't-keep-track-of-what-he-wrote ghostwriter, you mean. Cannoli - 15/10/2012 05:28:50 AM 1199 Views
Touché ... But to DomA's point we'll likely get some resolution in AMoL *NM* darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 05:53:14 AM 667 Views
Re: I've only been saying no for years. DomA - 14/10/2012 10:15:29 PM 1349 Views
Your argument is based on a faulty premise. Fanatic-Templar - 15/10/2012 08:11:19 PM 975 Views
That could also mean the same KC prophesies were is Seanchan before Luthair came along darius_sedai - 16/10/2012 12:54:07 AM 1041 Views
Of course there is truth... DomA - 14/10/2012 09:42:24 PM 1211 Views
Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 10:02:40 PM 1173 Views
Re: Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing DomA - 14/10/2012 10:23:17 PM 1176 Views
Hmmm ...I like it! It is actually very similar to what Nynaeve does darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 10:31:48 PM 1256 Views
How do the Black Ajah not figure out who the others are? darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 08:48:14 PM 1169 Views
Who says they can't? Cannoli - 14/10/2012 09:23:11 PM 1166 Views
True to a point darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM 1067 Views
Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. Cannoli - 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM 1116 Views
Perhaps not. But a woman like Sheriam would stick out darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:37:12 AM 1063 Views
Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. DomA - 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM 1145 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC? darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM 1039 Views
Galina isn't young. *NM* DomA - 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM 729 Views
Yes she is darius_sedai - 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM 1170 Views
85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS" DomA - 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM 1144 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO darius_sedai - 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM 1088 Views
Re: She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO DomA - 18/10/2012 08:10:58 PM 1119 Views
I think Linda is correct in this particular instance darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 02:14:23 AM 1194 Views
You mean the SC? DomA - 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM 1174 Views
No others meet as well darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM 1176 Views
Re: No others meet as well DomA - 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM 1148 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM 1013 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating DomA - 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM 1119 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM 1054 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups DomA - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM 1185 Views
I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 03:01:20 PM 980 Views
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve DomA - 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1301 Views
I have a different opinion of Delana darius_sedai - 16/10/2012 01:20:32 AM 1367 Views
Re: I have a different opinion of Delana DomA - 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM 1077 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC darius_sedai - 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM 1142 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC kHz1000 - 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM 1024 Views
Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts darius_sedai - 18/10/2012 06:57:38 PM 1162 Views
Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts DomA - 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM 1072 Views
Not a good plan, I'll give you that darius_sedai - 18/10/2012 07:37:45 PM 1180 Views
*sigh* DomA - 18/10/2012 08:25:23 PM 1135 Views
*double sigh* darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM 1083 Views
Re: *double sigh* DomA - 19/10/2012 05:48:25 PM 1109 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 04:57:18 PM 640 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC DomA - 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM 1210 Views
Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail darius_sedai - 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM 1182 Views
Not conclusive? DomA - 18/10/2012 08:49:49 PM 1036 Views
Don't put words in my mouth that I never said darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 1011 Views
double post *NM* darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 645 Views
Surely, in part, this is how Verin figured out who the Black Ajah was dadof5 - 15/10/2012 05:10:25 PM 3767 Views
Is there a Dark Friend WO? darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM 1231 Views
Re: Is there a Dark Friend WO? VTHokie - 17/10/2012 08:33:27 PM 1252 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well TyrReborn - 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM 1023 Views
Just a note about Bair redqueen - 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM 1156 Views
The traps were defeated by Elza before freed Semirhage darius_sedai - 18/10/2012 02:53:17 PM 1115 Views
Re: The traps were defeated by Elza before freed Semirhage DomA - 18/10/2012 07:06:13 PM 1315 Views
Sorilea would have not been able to disarm Cadsuane's wards. Both inverted and likely too strong darius_sedai - 18/10/2012 07:35:22 PM 1070 Views
No, she would not have been able to (nor even see them to report about them) DomA - 18/10/2012 09:32:38 PM 1131 Views
Verin's goal was to dig out the BA. A WO would have been nothing more than a momentary darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:11:51 AM 1024 Views
I don't see how it could be possible Onarishma - 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM 1036 Views
It's certainly possible, though it might contribute to making it rather rare DomA - 23/10/2012 10:55:07 PM 1102 Views
good point especially when you consider the Aiel view on pain and death Onarishma - 25/10/2012 06:14:40 PM 1001 Views
Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 10:47:55 PM 1318 Views
Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? redqueen - 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM 1248 Views
Totally pointless, just looking to spark some conversation on the board! darius_sedai - 15/10/2012 12:23:34 AM 1283 Views
But how often in real life does that happen? Alanis Morissette taught us about death row pardons *NM* Evil_Monkey - 17/10/2012 12:27:45 AM 737 Views
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