I think Linda is correct in this particular instance
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 19/10/2012 02:14:23 AM
Siuan's commentary on ages for Sitters coupled with the various hierarchy things we've seen tends to make me think she is correct. Given all the rules in the Hall we've seen that have to do with Sitter Age I tend to buy into certain elements being spot on for Ajah Head selection as well as Amyrlin selection.
Certainly every woman we've seen (and know the relative strength of) who is a Sitter or Ajah Head or other high level AS has been either VERY strong (by AS standards) in the Power, or very experienced and in most cases BOTH. The Salidar Six are an example of this ... they are almost certainly among the strongest women from each Ajah, strongest of any Ajah in all likelihood. Then take a look at the normal age Sitters in the rebel Hall ... Romanda and Lelaine are both older and very Powerful and end up as the major faction leaders. It seems natural that the hierarchy would have an effect on such things. Strength is the #1 criteria followed by training time and Age in every case ... in the Hall only length of time as a Sitter trumps that ... but realistically even Sitters defer to other Sitters with more strength, as we saw with the BA Hunters, note that Saerin is the Strongest (or at least equal to), the oldest, and has served the longest time in the Hall. Seems obvious that the Ajah each end up selecting the most experienced Sister who has sufficient Strength to not get pushed aside for such roles. Picking an Ajah Head doesn't seem much different ... why would the Blue select Cabriana as AH when they know that she has spent decades deferring to pretty much every other Blue sister? And why would they choose Siuan or Moiraine when they have women with both centuries of experience and very high strength like Anaiya or Lelaine? No way Cabriana ever gets the Ajah Head job. Siuan or Moiraine on the other hand would have just needed time to prove capability. Unless something drastic like the rebellion happens.
I suspect Myrelle was chosen Green Ajah Head for the rebels (something Elayne was SHOCKED by) for the same reasons the too young Sitters were chosen ... give her some experience prior to the actuality happening. As one of the Strongest Greens she would have been on the short list in the natural course of events. But probably not a viable contender for the role for at least another 100-150 years.
Imagine you are AS and have to vote for a new Sitter for your Ajah. Knowing that a weaker Sister would not get deference from other Sitters who would you appoint if you had to pick a Sitter ... 145 year old Sister Talene, who is Strong, or a Sister who is 215 years old but as weak as Hattori? This is about Politics, not 100% about ability, a weak Sitter would have a lot of issues commanding the respect of other Sitters and would end up losing ground for the Ajah. It's all about who will be able to sway Sitters from other Ajah to her way of thinking more easily. Same can be said for Ajah Heads. The Heads we've seen and know the relative Strength of are all very high in the hierarchy. Galina, Eadyth, Romanda and in all probability Anaiya and/or Lelaine all stood very close to the top of AS Strength. With only Galina being young, and her position was almost certainly attended due to BA maneuvering.
In real world terms, who do you pick for the team captain? The new guy with potential but has only been playing for 5 years, or the guy who has 10 championship rings and has been playing for 20 years? Sure you don't pick the veteran if he has no leadership skills, but if he does he's the natural selection.
AS are creatures of habit and rules and control. We only see them vary from their traditions under extreme circumstances. Siuan is chosen as Amyrlin because there had been a succession of short term Amyrlins and the Tower was reeling from the Troubles and untimely deaths of senior Sisters. She naturally appointed other young women as part of her immediate circle, but since both are extremely Stong for AS it is easy to let pass ... seems natural for her to select Sheriam and Leane since they were among her closest friends from Novice/Accepted days. Egwene, as we all know was chosen because they thought to set up a puppet. Yet they chose someone they thought could eventually (due to her Strength) become a true Amyrlin, Siuan played on this deliberately when she chose Egwene. They would not have selected a weak woman ... they had plenty to choose from in Salidar.
Elaida was a creation of the BA and when she was forced into a situation to replace Silviana she needed to keep the Red on her side, find someone she felt she could trust (i.e. a contemporary) and probably had some level of BA influence on that selection as well. If I were to guess at Silviana and Tianna's ages I'd assume they were probably younger than what a Sitter would be, but experienced enough to have held other administrative roles. MoN seems to be the type of role you could put a woman with potential if you needed to ... since they don't actually participate in Tower policy you are safe if you end up with some one like Tianna who gets overwhelmed.
Certainly every woman we've seen (and know the relative strength of) who is a Sitter or Ajah Head or other high level AS has been either VERY strong (by AS standards) in the Power, or very experienced and in most cases BOTH. The Salidar Six are an example of this ... they are almost certainly among the strongest women from each Ajah, strongest of any Ajah in all likelihood. Then take a look at the normal age Sitters in the rebel Hall ... Romanda and Lelaine are both older and very Powerful and end up as the major faction leaders. It seems natural that the hierarchy would have an effect on such things. Strength is the #1 criteria followed by training time and Age in every case ... in the Hall only length of time as a Sitter trumps that ... but realistically even Sitters defer to other Sitters with more strength, as we saw with the BA Hunters, note that Saerin is the Strongest (or at least equal to), the oldest, and has served the longest time in the Hall. Seems obvious that the Ajah each end up selecting the most experienced Sister who has sufficient Strength to not get pushed aside for such roles. Picking an Ajah Head doesn't seem much different ... why would the Blue select Cabriana as AH when they know that she has spent decades deferring to pretty much every other Blue sister? And why would they choose Siuan or Moiraine when they have women with both centuries of experience and very high strength like Anaiya or Lelaine? No way Cabriana ever gets the Ajah Head job. Siuan or Moiraine on the other hand would have just needed time to prove capability. Unless something drastic like the rebellion happens.
I suspect Myrelle was chosen Green Ajah Head for the rebels (something Elayne was SHOCKED by) for the same reasons the too young Sitters were chosen ... give her some experience prior to the actuality happening. As one of the Strongest Greens she would have been on the short list in the natural course of events. But probably not a viable contender for the role for at least another 100-150 years.
Imagine you are AS and have to vote for a new Sitter for your Ajah. Knowing that a weaker Sister would not get deference from other Sitters who would you appoint if you had to pick a Sitter ... 145 year old Sister Talene, who is Strong, or a Sister who is 215 years old but as weak as Hattori? This is about Politics, not 100% about ability, a weak Sitter would have a lot of issues commanding the respect of other Sitters and would end up losing ground for the Ajah. It's all about who will be able to sway Sitters from other Ajah to her way of thinking more easily. Same can be said for Ajah Heads. The Heads we've seen and know the relative Strength of are all very high in the hierarchy. Galina, Eadyth, Romanda and in all probability Anaiya and/or Lelaine all stood very close to the top of AS Strength. With only Galina being young, and her position was almost certainly attended due to BA maneuvering.
In real world terms, who do you pick for the team captain? The new guy with potential but has only been playing for 5 years, or the guy who has 10 championship rings and has been playing for 20 years? Sure you don't pick the veteran if he has no leadership skills, but if he does he's the natural selection.
AS are creatures of habit and rules and control. We only see them vary from their traditions under extreme circumstances. Siuan is chosen as Amyrlin because there had been a succession of short term Amyrlins and the Tower was reeling from the Troubles and untimely deaths of senior Sisters. She naturally appointed other young women as part of her immediate circle, but since both are extremely Stong for AS it is easy to let pass ... seems natural for her to select Sheriam and Leane since they were among her closest friends from Novice/Accepted days. Egwene, as we all know was chosen because they thought to set up a puppet. Yet they chose someone they thought could eventually (due to her Strength) become a true Amyrlin, Siuan played on this deliberately when she chose Egwene. They would not have selected a weak woman ... they had plenty to choose from in Salidar.
Elaida was a creation of the BA and when she was forced into a situation to replace Silviana she needed to keep the Red on her side, find someone she felt she could trust (i.e. a contemporary) and probably had some level of BA influence on that selection as well. If I were to guess at Silviana and Tianna's ages I'd assume they were probably younger than what a Sitter would be, but experienced enough to have held other administrative roles. MoN seems to be the type of role you could put a woman with potential if you needed to ... since they don't actually participate in Tower policy you are safe if you end up with some one like Tianna who gets overwhelmed.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 19/10/2012 at 04:42:25 AM
Misc observations from my latest re-read
- 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM
3120 Views
How does LTT know about Far Madding's history?
- 14/10/2012 08:29:13 PM
1671 Views
Re: How does LTT know about Far Madding's history?
- 14/10/2012 09:23:24 PM
1676 Views
Knowing the post Breaking history of the Guardians and speaking of the city as though he had persona
- 14/10/2012 09:56:55 PM
1392 Views
How Stong was Gitara?
- 14/10/2012 08:34:43 PM
1606 Views
So so stong. She had incredible stength.
- 14/10/2012 09:04:15 PM
1634 Views
Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live
- 14/10/2012 09:22:23 PM
1441 Views
Re: Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live
- 14/10/2012 09:36:19 PM
1240 Views
Not in the mood to deal with you ... Go read the Ages section of 13th Depository
- 14/10/2012 09:53:14 PM
1254 Views
Not interested in Linda's private theories.
- 15/10/2012 02:29:41 AM
1429 Views
Not my problem if you are that lazy. All the quotes you want are nicely organized
- 15/10/2012 02:50:45 AM
1256 Views
Problem is...
- 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM
1358 Views
Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear
- 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM
1253 Views
Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities!
- 15/10/2012 02:58:19 AM
1247 Views
Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up
- 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM
1194 Views
Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up
- 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM
1320 Views
Yet Morgase herself states she didn't consider Elaida a friend
- 15/10/2012 03:45:45 AM
1147 Views
How did Gareth Bryne get to stay Captain General, given his lack of respect to Aes Sedai?
- 15/10/2012 04:07:07 AM
1288 Views
He was banging the queen
- 15/10/2012 04:19:24 AM
1188 Views
And what Aes Sedai gave him permission to bang the queen?
- 15/10/2012 04:30:42 AM
1469 Views
here ya go
- 15/10/2012 04:39:29 AM
1316 Views
Re: Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities!
- 15/10/2012 10:38:16 AM
1118 Views
Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear
- 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM
1320 Views
The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all
- 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM
1220 Views
IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR
- 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM
1307 Views
Nope. Every other advisor we've seen has been sent from TV
- 15/10/2012 03:50:07 AM
1249 Views
Those are not official advisers, those are ambassadors!
- 15/10/2012 04:17:51 AM
1304 Views
So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower?
- 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM
1237 Views
She didn't "land it". She took the job for herself...
- 15/10/2012 04:00:35 AM
1231 Views
Actually every advisor we've seen except Elaida has been appointed
- 15/10/2012 04:11:39 AM
1242 Views
You can bully someone into an act, not a twenty year relationship
- 15/10/2012 04:22:16 AM
1360 Views
Not arguing that Morgase had a problem with her
- 15/10/2012 04:33:10 AM
1189 Views
We know nothing of the sort.
- 15/10/2012 05:14:54 AM
1189 Views
Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned
- 15/10/2012 05:39:23 AM
1300 Views
Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned
- 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM
1312 Views
Egwene said otherwise DomA,...
- 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM
1260 Views
And an answer to the rest of your "points"
- 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM
1459 Views
Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy
- 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM
1249 Views
The burden of proof is on you to make your points. There is nothing in the books.
- 15/10/2012 03:01:46 AM
1268 Views
You mean the only way she could avoid become Queen was to flee?
- 15/10/2012 03:30:26 AM
1300 Views
And never ever face discipline or punishment for fleeing? Outside the Tower, she was on her own.
- 15/10/2012 03:40:23 AM
1220 Views
I'm not using her theory, I'm saying she posted all the damn quotes in one place
- 15/10/2012 03:57:00 AM
1245 Views
You don't see how evading the Tower's authority for 10 years undermines YOUR position?
- 15/10/2012 05:21:29 AM
1139 Views
Nope. It substantiates that the Tower will exert itself to ensure its Political standing
- 15/10/2012 05:41:33 AM
1180 Views
Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote:
- 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM
1345 Views
Okay, but that's still irrelevant to the Oath Rod & its cutoff period or method, as well as lifespan
- 15/10/2012 04:54:26 AM
1183 Views
To quote you RTDB
- 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM
1176 Views
And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page
*NM*
- 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM
732 Views
*NM*
- 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM
732 Views
How old was Lanfear?
- 14/10/2012 08:41:35 PM
1292 Views
Re: How old was Lanfear?
- 14/10/2012 11:27:12 PM
1328 Views
I couldn't find it
- 15/10/2012 12:22:43 AM
1227 Views
It's in the Fires of Heaven, when Lanfear visits Rand and he remembers her as Mierin. *NM*
- 20/10/2012 04:19:09 AM
788 Views
Are the Seanchan prophesies false?
- 14/10/2012 08:43:55 PM
1413 Views
I've only been saying no for years.
- 14/10/2012 09:21:43 PM
1484 Views
Not the same thing
- 14/10/2012 09:44:43 PM
1215 Views
Show me some damn PROOF already!!
- 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM
1398 Views
I believe DomA covered this in his post
- 15/10/2012 03:31:54 AM
1207 Views
Illogic, arguments from (false) authority and now ad hominem attacks.
- 15/10/2012 03:46:49 AM
1187 Views
I just don't see the point of an argument with someone who has already been proven wrong
- 15/10/2012 03:59:19 AM
1209 Views
The frequently-confessing-ignorance, can't-keep-track-of-what-he-wrote ghostwriter, you mean.
- 15/10/2012 05:28:50 AM
1318 Views
Touché ... But to DomA's point we'll likely get some resolution in AMoL *NM*
- 15/10/2012 05:53:14 AM
732 Views
Your argument is based on a faulty premise.
- 15/10/2012 08:11:19 PM
1093 Views
That could also mean the same KC prophesies were is Seanchan before Luthair came along
- 16/10/2012 12:54:07 AM
1160 Views
Of course there is truth...
- 14/10/2012 09:42:24 PM
1325 Views
Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing
- 14/10/2012 10:02:40 PM
1271 Views
Re: Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing
- 14/10/2012 10:23:17 PM
1316 Views
Hmmm ...I like it! It is actually very similar to what Nynaeve does
- 14/10/2012 10:31:48 PM
1364 Views
How do the Black Ajah not figure out who the others are?
- 14/10/2012 08:48:14 PM
1292 Views
Who says they can't?
- 14/10/2012 09:23:11 PM
1284 Views
True to a point
- 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM
1205 Views
Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC.
- 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM
1257 Views
Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC.
- 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM
1284 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC?
- 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM
1149 Views
Galina isn't young. *NM*
- 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM
798 Views
Yes she is
- 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM
1293 Views
85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS"
- 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM
1261 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO
- 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM
1213 Views
Re: She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO
- 18/10/2012 08:10:58 PM
1236 Views
I think Linda is correct in this particular instance
- 19/10/2012 02:14:23 AM
1337 Views
You mean the SC?
- 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM
1289 Views
No others meet as well
- 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM
1285 Views
Re: No others meet as well
- 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM
1261 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating
- 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM
1130 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating
- 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM
1252 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups
- 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM
1180 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups
- 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM
1321 Views
I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve
- 15/10/2012 03:01:20 PM
1114 Views
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve
- 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1416 Views
I have a different opinion of Delana
- 16/10/2012 01:20:32 AM
1534 Views
Re: I have a different opinion of Delana
- 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM
1191 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC
- 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM
1249 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC
- 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM
1136 Views
Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts
- 18/10/2012 06:57:38 PM
1274 Views
Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts
- 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM
1189 Views
Not a good plan, I'll give you that
- 18/10/2012 07:37:45 PM
1305 Views
*sigh*
- 18/10/2012 08:25:23 PM
1254 Views
*double sigh*
- 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM
1211 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC
- 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM
1305 Views
Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail
- 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM
1310 Views
Surely, in part, this is how Verin figured out who the Black Ajah was
- 15/10/2012 05:10:25 PM
3911 Views
Is there a Dark Friend WO?
- 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM
1367 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well
- 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM
1151 Views
Just a note about Bair
- 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM
1272 Views
The traps were defeated by Elza before freed Semirhage
- 18/10/2012 02:53:17 PM
1246 Views
Re: The traps were defeated by Elza before freed Semirhage
- 18/10/2012 07:06:13 PM
1447 Views
Sorilea would have not been able to disarm Cadsuane's wards. Both inverted and likely too strong
- 18/10/2012 07:35:22 PM
1190 Views
No, she would not have been able to (nor even see them to report about them)
- 18/10/2012 09:32:38 PM
1265 Views
Verin's goal was to dig out the BA. A WO would have been nothing more than a momentary
- 19/10/2012 04:11:51 AM
1148 Views
I don't see how it could be possible
- 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM
1161 Views
It's certainly possible, though it might contribute to making it rather rare
- 23/10/2012 10:55:07 PM
1237 Views
good point especially when you consider the Aiel view on pain and death
- 25/10/2012 06:14:40 PM
1090 Views
Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers?
- 14/10/2012 10:47:55 PM
1438 Views
Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers?
- 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM
1390 Views
Totally pointless, just looking to spark some conversation on the board!
- 15/10/2012 12:23:34 AM
1389 Views
But how often in real life does that happen? Alanis Morissette taught us about death row pardons *NM*
- 17/10/2012 12:27:45 AM
807 Views
