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And countless hours of frustrated focus to--fleetingly--grasp the source ONCE (i.e. less than twice) Joel Send a noteboard - 10/07/2015 02:51:53 AM

That was her statement, in a context strongly indicating she meant "once EVER," not "once in that session."


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View original postI do not think a difference in their strengths clear at all, else I would not contend it is nonexistent. Morgase also exhibits ability to use the OP, after perhaps as little as half a days constant effort on top of half a days "training" decades earlier. Sure, waving a hanky is not much: But for an incredibly weak channeler who has only spent a ONE DAY IN HER WHOLE LIFE trying to channel, it is quite impressive. At least as much as an equally weak channeler simply adding her strength to others after decades or perhaps even a century or regular training and practice, even if channeling was only an incidental part of that experience.
You keep making the assertion that she only spend ONE day ever training, which is patently unprovable. As a future High Seat (as she was when she went to the Tower), she would have been treated quite well when her limited ability was discovered and I'm certain that the AS would have been more willing to use this time to build a strong foundational relationship with a powerful Noble, who they would have suspected would be next in line to be Queen should anything happen to the Daughter Heir.

To be fair, she could have and quite possibly did spend more than one day TRYING to channel, but she only spent one MOMENT actually DOING it. The Tower undoubtedly trained her in myriad OTHER ways and continually primed her (or tried) as a potential lever on the future queen of the powerful neighboring nation that was the largest known. That does not, however, mean they wasted any more time training her in the OP once she finally managed to satisfy their technical need to see her use it for a brief instant. It actually argues just the opposite: The Tower had FAR more constructive ways to use its access to Morgase than the pointless one of trying to "develop" her negligible channeling ability.


View original postPoint being she spent an awful lot of time in the Tower and reflects on having chats with various AS during her time ... no other Novice expresses such relationships. She would have gotten more training than you outline in any case as she would have died without learning at least the basics of control. Fact is she is so weak that grasping the Source is basically the limit of her ability.

No other novice was "a future High Seat... who they would have suspected would be next in line to be Queen should anything happen to the Daughter Heir." But, again, that means the Tower was far better served "developing" that relationship than her negligible channeling ability. Failure to learn control would not have killed her, because she was no wilder; it took all the Towers experience in training to get her to grasp the Source even ONCE, and even that much was something she NEVER AGAIN managed (nor probably even TRIED) before Malden, control or no control. It is not like she was at risk of inadvertently/irresistably embracing the Source had they released her immediately, let alone burning herself out or killing herself or anyone else. She stayed a while and got close personal attention, but for purely political reasons.


View original postSorilea has more.

That would not follow even absent the preceding, but certainly does not WITH it.


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View original postYes, Cadsuane suspects VERY incorrectly: From what we are told of Sorileas history and family she is probably only a few years past 100, if that. So Caddy was off by a factor of 3, indicating either gauging strength and/or its effect on slowing (most likely the latter) is far from an exact science. Yet Sorilea LOOKS very old despite being around 100 and her apparent aging slowed by channeling; no one would call Bair young, nor even middle aged, so Sorilea has not slowed MUCH, and Morgase has slowed enough--despite having only channeled ONCE, BRIEFLY, before her captivity--it is noticeable even by her early forties. So if there is a difference between their strengths (and, realistically, it is extremely implausible their strengths would be exactly equal) the available evidence strongly argues it is negligible.
As Fionwe commented, RJ has stated that the WO appear older and live shorter lives because of living in the Waste. Sorilea could be as old as 150 from the information we have. Cadsuane has encountered at least one other "toothless wilder" in her career so it seems likely that she has some idea that there is something different about the way they age and she has clearly realized that AS ages vary based on their strength in the power. So her assumption that Sorilea may be as old as she is isn't coming from a total guess, she's got enough information to factor in strength adding more longevity, aging process looking different to AS than to Wilders and Sorilea's obvious looks. Point being she's seems strong enough in the Power to have a little bit of slowing, more than what we've seen with Morgase who probably won't live much longer than a normal woman.

Cadsuanes assumption Sorliea equals her age is not a total guess, but is totally WRONG: Even if we accept that 150 estimate Caddy was off by a factor of 2. And from what we know of Sorileas family and that harsh but vigorous Aiel lifestyle it is VERY unlikely she was 150, else she would almost certainly be a great-great-great-great-great-grandmother: SOMEONE in the clannish Aiel society would have remarked on that at some point; instead, IIRC, there was a mention of a great or great-great-grandchild. Assuming she and each offspring bore a child at 30 (middle age for Aiel) that would put her upper age limit at 120. Ancient, sure, but not unnaturally; the main role of slowing there is she is not already an invalid by that age.

Sorilea looks and acts, at most, two-thirds her chronological age; Morgase appears little if any older proportionately, despite having only ONCE channeled for SECONDS, which is FAR less than even the weakest member of even a group that channels little. And we know that not only strength in the OP causes slowing but also USING it, so Sorilea would be far more affected than Morgase even if they were equal (particularly since she has not only channeled more, but been doing so at least TWICE as long as Morgase has been ALIVE.)

There is just no "strong" argument for a significant (if any) strength difference between the two characters held up as the WEAKEST of their respective cultures. Even if SORILEA were the weaker one (which, to be clear, I do not believe) she would still be able to DO more for the same reason Lanfear tied the far stronger Rand in knots in their early meetings: Because of far more training and experience. In terms of secondary indicators, however, there are none suggesting Sorilea is appreciably stronger than Morgase. Given their similar channeler and thus narrative roles, that is understandable; the point of both is illustrating even women who could use the OP did not require it to exercise commanding effective leadership.

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