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Good points RabidWombat Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM
I look at things a different way, forgetting the actual events that hurt the shadow.
Where would be be in the story now without her? If any of the others were missing things would be worse, but Rand aside she'd been the catalyst for everything, theres a vision Rand has where he is an old man fightin trolloc's in the two rivers, this is what would have happened without her.


You make a good point. I certainly rate Moiraine high on my list. I am not so confident as to give any character an exact number. My main problem is that this relies too much on speculation about what might have happened. There are thousands of events that might have equal if not greater importance; we will never know though because we haven't had a vision of them. Some of those events in the visions you mentioned had Moiraine coming for Rand and Rand still losing.

Nynaeve ticks most boxes, but she never playes a major role in most of them, Moiraine and Lan where a two man army against the shadow for almost 20 years.


I love this quote. You are so right; My gut feeling, though, is that whatever the correct rating system is that Nynaeve will be very close to the top if not at the top.

It is amazing how well relatively unsophisticated models of ranking things works. (As long as they make a modestly unbiased attempt to include relevant parameters.) We can see something like this in College football with the various ranking systems. The top 10 will be different for each ranking system but they will agree in spirit much more then they disagree. They are sophisticated systems yet ask any modestly knowledgeable football fan to make their own top 10 and their ranking will be pretty good as long as they base it on facts and not personal fantasy.

RabidWombat
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Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) RabidWombat - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 2014 Views
Nyneave wins hands down Isaac - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 1223 Views
Nyneave has done more fairfax - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 1174 Views
Nynaeve! Fantasy - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 1078 Views
I'd say Mat BlackAdder - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 1137 Views
are you sure? NaClH2O - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 1165 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve BlackAdder - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 1170 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow NaClH2O - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 1369 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow BlackAdder - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 1127 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* NaClH2O - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 531 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. Lord Haart - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 1125 Views
Immaterial. NaClH2O - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 1001 Views
It has to be Moiraine TheCrownless - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 1187 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. Cannoli - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 1323 Views
So you think the story would have panned out TheCrownless - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 1026 Views
None. *NM* BlackAdder - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 507 Views
That's highly subjective ranagrande - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 1130 Views
Re: That's highly subjective BlackAdder - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 1009 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. TheCrownless - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 1036 Views
All of them ranagrande - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 1148 Views
Those were only visions TheCrownless - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 1043 Views
They may have only been visions... ranagrande - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 1123 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" TheCrownless - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 1038 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" ranagrande - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 1183 Views
That all goes without saying TheCrownless - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 958 Views
I disagree ranagrande - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 1095 Views
Re: I disagree TheCrownless - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 1072 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold beetnemesis - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 1090 Views
Does that mean he'd win? TheCrownless - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 1052 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. BlackAdder - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 1031 Views
Not really what I was arguing. TheCrownless - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 1039 Views
Good points RabidWombat - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 1131 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* ranagrande - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 525 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) Cannoli - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 1324 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds RabidWombat - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 1198 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him TheCrownless - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 1041 Views
That is true for most people if not all RabidWombat - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 1090 Views
He's got a point though... Cannoli - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 1121 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. TheCrownless - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 1000 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* Cannoli - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 504 Views
Ishamael/Moridin Sidious - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 1431 Views
Good call TheCrownless - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 1116 Views
Not to mention I think he's more interested in self preservation at this moment Ryan - 18/10/2009 07:18:28 AM 983 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin ranagrande - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 1238 Views
lol It goes to show that even when you think you're doing evil, the Pattern makes it good. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/10/2009 06:25:08 PM 500 Views
You make it sound very simple BlackAdder - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 1165 Views
No - it is very simple Sidious - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 1115 Views
Not necessarily- Digital_Eon - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 1126 Views
surely a draw meant resealing TheCrownless - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 1031 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 1138 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. BlackAdder - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 1237 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 1177 Views
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