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Re: I agree with you! darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 25/11/2009 05:50:06 PM
I don't think the numbers are exact. Linda once made a list of all the channelers on her proposed 21-level list, and while it's not necessarily accurate, RJ merely wanted to show some sort of bell curve distribution.

When I say 1 in 10, I mean women of higher than average strength i.e. Moiraine, Suian, Romanda, Lelaine, Elaida, Kerene, Mylen, Nicola, Bode and Cadsuane.

The next level above that is a strong woman i.e. Egwene and Elayne.

I don't think the bell curve is ignored. It's not linear after all. I think Lanfear is a few levels stronger than Graendal and thus much rarer. It's like a comparison between Logain and Rand. I think some men might reach Logain's level, but I find it very unlikely that anyone will reach Rand's. For each climb in strength you become more of a statistical anomaly.


I just think you are ignoring the evidence from the book that puts what you are calling "higher than average" a great deal more rare than you are giving credit.

I also think it's inaccurate to call Egwene/Elayne etc merely "Strong". Every shred of evidence in the book puts them at just below the highest echelons of female strength, with maybe a dozen or so women with more strength, out of thousands of women who can channel there are likely to be less than 100 who are stronger, and even fewer (if any new agers) with more skill. It's kind of like saying having a 175 IQ is just "smart" simply because there are a few people out there with a 200 IQ.

While I generally agree that Lanfear is practically unique, I don't think there is evidence in the books to support your claim that she is "several levels" above Graendal. It's obvious that she was stronger, but other than knowing she is weaker as Cyndane yet still stronger than Graendal we don't have anything to go on. We don't even have conclusive proof that Graendal is the next strongest of the FS, lots of hints, but it's possible Semirhage and Mesaana possess more raw strength (in fact I don't recall ever hear that Cyndane is in fact stronger than either of them), which is the only way I can really see Lanfear being more than 2 rungs higher than Graendal.

Personally I think you tend to make the Forsaken strength spread too wide (between each other). I see them as all very close (with the exception of Moghedien) in absolute strength, but with vastly different skill levels.

Semirhage probably being the top of the skilled heap, or perhaps Graendal. I say this because Graendal is unsure that Demandred is more capable than Semirhage in her tGS POV and she has no reason to be lying. In fact I would go so far as to say that Semirhage and Graendal were likely 2 of the most highly skilled women of their age, both achieved the 3rd name, both were world famous in their fields and both caused a great stir when they went over to the DO.

Lanfear on the other hand had to make a dramatic announcement that she was going over, and really did anyone care that a disgraced (if very strong) researcher who had no distinction other than being LTTs stalker ex-gf became Forsaken? Moghedien and Mesaana probably barely got notice when the went over... in fact I'd bet Mesaana means "Giver of Detention"

I don't think there is any evidence that any of the Forsaken feared or even really respected Lanfear all that much despite her strength, oh they were wary of her temper as none of them seem to relish open conflict and they all pretty much hated her guts (of course that's nothing unusual for them), but if she was really so much more powerful than any of the other women they would have been much less likely to openly stand against her, Semirhage clearly makes it obvious that she hates the woman and seems to have no fear at all.

IMO the skill levels (which the FS are clearly more impressed by):

Semirhage/Graendal
Lanfear
Mesaana
Moghedien

for the Men it's less obvious IMO but I'd say:

Ishy/Aginor
Demandred/Sammael
Be'lal/Rhavin
Balthamel/Asmodean

Sadly if Aginor had ever grown a pair he could have gone even further, but his general lack of anything resembling a spine held him back in this unscrupulous lot.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? - 21/11/2009 02:53:22 PM 1382 Views
BS said... - 21/11/2009 02:57:58 PM 725 Views
Actually, you are adding a word that isn't there. - 21/11/2009 03:47:48 PM 939 Views
IMO, it's self evident that the female list only contains named characters - 21/11/2009 03:58:33 PM 606 Views
IMO, the above post by "Logain" is trolling and not worth the debating!! *NM* - 21/11/2009 04:01:08 PM 209 Views
I have a valid reason for asking. - 21/11/2009 04:05:52 PM 700 Views
I can assure you... - 21/11/2009 04:47:18 PM 526 Views
Re: IMO, it's self evident that the female list only contains named characters - 21/11/2009 04:09:58 PM 453 Views
I don't know - 21/11/2009 04:17:02 PM 421 Views
I find it unlikely that a super strong channeler would end up being unimportant to the plot *NM* - 21/11/2009 11:54:43 PM 207 Views
This sounds semi-mystical... - 24/11/2009 04:45:52 PM 392 Views
Also, if they were that strong, they would then be important. - 29/11/2009 05:24:35 PM 370 Views
she's in the top 0.1% of channelers we know of - 21/11/2009 03:01:02 PM 488 Views
She's in the top 0.05% *NM* - 21/11/2009 11:41:42 PM 204 Views
so shes also in the top 0.1%? *NM* - 22/11/2009 12:04:00 AM 204 Views
Of course. My figure is more exclusive. *NM* - 22/11/2009 12:23:23 AM 181 Views
Yes *NM* - 21/11/2009 03:56:12 PM 197 Views
Yes, though obviously Etzel is right. - 21/11/2009 04:08:41 PM 557 Views
Re: Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? - 21/11/2009 06:00:29 PM 440 Views
So what's the point? Why the quotes? *NM* - 21/11/2009 10:24:37 PM 190 Views
Re: So what's the point? Why the quotes? - 24/11/2009 07:31:37 PM 392 Views
Actually... what Graenal says - 25/11/2009 09:39:05 PM 444 Views
Well... - 21/11/2009 11:44:40 PM 485 Views
I really doubt Nynaeve strength channelers are one in thousand... - 22/11/2009 12:09:15 AM 478 Views
I agree with you! - 23/11/2009 12:48:35 AM 413 Views
Re: I agree with you! - 23/11/2009 03:56:14 AM 435 Views
Re: I agree with you! - 25/11/2009 05:50:06 PM 442 Views
Re: I agree with you! - 26/11/2009 05:10:22 PM 534 Views
Re: I agree with you! - 26/11/2009 07:22:30 PM 423 Views
Re: I agree with you! - 26/11/2009 07:36:38 PM 387 Views
Hmmm... - 26/11/2009 10:38:44 PM 436 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 04:36:59 AM 464 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 05:11:46 AM 478 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 04:23:59 PM 416 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 06:13:26 PM 517 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 05:40:50 AM 485 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 04:42:36 PM 492 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 27/11/2009 05:53:11 PM 421 Views
Re: not being able to shield Elayne - 28/11/2009 09:46:24 PM 397 Views
Yes, the incidents rather cancel each other out IMO - 29/11/2009 12:55:04 AM 413 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 04:44:41 AM 479 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 05:50:37 AM 497 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 08:09:24 PM 474 Views
This is our never ending debate ... at least it's a good one - 01/12/2009 03:31:40 PM 692 Views
Re: Hmmm... - 30/11/2009 08:57:50 PM 620 Views
Re: Well... - 24/11/2009 07:41:57 PM 373 Views
Re: Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? Yes *NM* - 22/11/2009 05:29:17 AM 193 Views
Yes. *NM* - 24/11/2009 05:56:17 PM 221 Views
Yes. *NM* - 25/11/2009 06:22:09 PM 174 Views

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