Wheel of Time Messageboard: Re: Hmmm... by darius

Back to Messageboard

Post New Thread

Help

Stats

Rules

Re: Hmmm... darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 27/11/2009 06:13:26 PM

I'll go for 100. That's still a lot of Egwene's in the world.

Even if there are 100 more, that still represents less than 1% of all female channelers (assuming at the moment there are about 12k)

Heh... Pamela. My main problem is that we don't have conclusive proof of anything, but the fact that there are even a few women of Egwene's strength imply that there are others out there.

Of course there are! Just like there are more Nyn/Sharina/Lanfear, and to your point there will be more Egwene's than Nyns... no arguing that!

But let's note for a moment that in every culture we've seen thus far Egwene level strength has been noted as unusual and commented upon, the WF in TSR talks about Elayne's strength as the reason she believed she and Nyn were AS (the WF know the AS prize strength so she assumes only the very strong would be AS). Teh Sul'dam prize Egwene for her raw strength as well as her Earth talents. It's important to note that we know that the Aiel, WF and damane all have women of greater strength floating around, but still comment on Egwene/Elayne/Avi. That goes a very long way in my mind toward defining where they stand, IMO a looong way above the likes of Moiraine or Amys!

The disobedience had nothing to do with strength - the three women have never deferred to one another. Elayne was saying that she'd disobey Nynaeve no matter what she said. As for the shielding question, it's a theory out there that Nynaeve wasn't concentrating and hurled an unprepared weave at Elayne. Without her block, and with some decent weaving, she would have easily succeeded. It's true I can't refute your point, but then we've seen that Nynaeve can cut off Moghedien and Talaan with her ability, and they are verifiably stronger than Elayne.

I disagree. Elayne never would have made this comment prior to being raised AS. And they are constantly pissed off that Sisters who should stand far enough below them don't act properly. We've never seen Nynaeve even think that "Elayne should be serving me tea". I think it's clear that while Nynaeve is obviously considerably stronger than Elayne, they are much closer to each other than Elayne and Moiraine would have been.

But Moghedien was addressing both her and Nynaeve. It's unlikely the comments were reserved for Elayne. I think they have about 2/3 of the Forsaken's power i.e. 40 vs 60 out of 100.

I addressed part of this below, but I still find it amazing that you think any of the Forsaken would be as low as "60/100" ... I'd say even Moghedien would be at least an 80/100

It's easy to say that Moiraine is wrong, but on the other hand, it's almost the only quote we've got on their relative strengths. Moiraine might not know dung about the Forsaken and their power, but even she can measure the girl's different potentials.

Fair enough, Moiraine should be able to accurately judge their strength

My main point is still the first part of my statement. Moiraine's hyperbole is meant to make Siuane feel better! She's talking in terms of political ramifications in the Tower as much as anything else. Egwene is (at least, per Moiraine) equal to Elayne so they've leveled the playing field with her, and lit a bonfire by doubling up and bringing an even stronger Nynaeve along. If you take that quote literally Nynaeve is like 1000x stronger and we know that's not the case

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!

Reply to message

Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? Logain - 21/11/2009 02:53:22 PM 1733 Views

BS said... Etzel - 21/11/2009 02:57:58 PM 1087 Views

Actually, you are adding a word that isn't there. Logain - 21/11/2009 03:47:48 PM 1280 Views

IMO, it's self evident that the female list only contains named characters Etzel - 21/11/2009 03:58:33 PM 929 Views

IMO, the above post by "Logain" is trolling and not worth the debating!! *NM* Simon - 21/11/2009 04:01:08 PM 370 Views

I have a valid reason for asking. Logain - 21/11/2009 04:05:52 PM 1031 Views

I can assure you... Etzel - 21/11/2009 04:47:18 PM 865 Views

Re: IMO, it's self evident that the female list only contains named characters Logain - 21/11/2009 04:09:58 PM 796 Views

I don't know Etzel - 21/11/2009 04:17:02 PM 764 Views

I find it unlikely that a super strong channeler would end up being unimportant to the plot *NM* Marshall - 21/11/2009 11:54:43 PM 345 Views

This sounds semi-mystical... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 24/11/2009 04:45:52 PM 712 Views

Also, if they were that strong, they would then be important. Marshall - 29/11/2009 05:24:35 PM 696 Views

she's in the top 0.1% of channelers we know of TheCrownless - 21/11/2009 03:01:02 PM 835 Views

She's in the top 0.05% *NM* Marshall - 21/11/2009 11:41:42 PM 355 Views

so shes also in the top 0.1%? *NM* TheCrownless - 22/11/2009 12:04:00 AM 350 Views

Of course. My figure is more exclusive. *NM* Marshall - 22/11/2009 12:23:23 AM 348 Views

Yes *NM* Simon - 21/11/2009 03:56:12 PM 352 Views

Yes, though obviously Etzel is right. Legolas - 21/11/2009 04:08:41 PM 981 Views

Re: Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? Kieran - 21/11/2009 06:00:29 PM 787 Views

So, in terms of Nynaeve's power, do you think she is VERY rare? *NM* Logain - 21/11/2009 06:23:14 PM 346 Views

Yes. She is so rare that she is mythic. A foiled Nynaeve can prolly fetch $100.

*NM* Bookwyrm - 21/11/2009 09:59:28 PM 355 Views

So what's the point? Why the quotes? *NM* BlackAdder - 21/11/2009 10:24:37 PM 339 Views

Re: So what's the point? Why the quotes? Logain - 24/11/2009 07:31:37 PM 739 Views

Actually... what Graenal says darius_sedai - 25/11/2009 09:39:05 PM 782 Views

Well... Sidious - 21/11/2009 11:44:40 PM 829 Views

I really doubt Nynaeve strength channelers are one in thousand... fionwe1987 - 22/11/2009 12:09:15 AM 813 Views

I agree with you! darius_sedai - 23/11/2009 12:48:35 AM 749 Views

Re: I agree with you! Sidious - 23/11/2009 03:56:14 AM 805 Views

Re: I agree with you! darius_sedai - 25/11/2009 05:50:06 PM 798 Views

Re: I agree with you! Sidious - 26/11/2009 05:10:22 PM 886 Views

Re: I agree with you! fionwe1987 - 26/11/2009 07:22:30 PM 784 Views

Re: I agree with you! Sidious - 26/11/2009 07:36:38 PM 738 Views

Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 26/11/2009 10:38:44 PM 789 Views

Re: Hmmm... Sidious - 27/11/2009 04:36:59 AM 836 Views

Re: Hmmm... darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 05:11:46 AM 807 Views

Re: Hmmm... Sidious - 27/11/2009 04:23:59 PM 800 Views

Re: Hmmm... darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 06:13:26 PM 882 Views

Re: Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 27/11/2009 05:40:50 AM 829 Views

Re: Hmmm... Sidious - 27/11/2009 04:42:36 PM 851 Views

Re: Hmmm... darius_sedai - 27/11/2009 05:53:11 PM 816 Views

Re: not being able to shield Elayne Logain - 28/11/2009 09:46:24 PM 760 Views

Yes, the incidents rather cancel each other out IMO darius_sedai - 29/11/2009 12:55:04 AM 799 Views

Re: Hmmm... Sidious - 30/11/2009 04:44:41 AM 858 Views

Re: Hmmm... darius_sedai - 30/11/2009 05:50:37 AM 861 Views

Re: Hmmm... Sidious - 30/11/2009 08:09:24 PM 819 Views

This is our never ending debate ... at least it's a good one

darius_sedai - 01/12/2009 03:31:40 PM 1028 Views

Don't forget Therava. She's stronger than any woman in the tower according to Galina. Logain - 28/11/2009 09:41:10 PM 715 Views

Re: Don't forget Therava. She's stronger than any woman in the tower according to Galina. darius_sedai - 29/11/2009 12:40:02 AM 933 Views

Re: Hmmm... fionwe1987 - 30/11/2009 08:57:50 PM 994 Views

Fionwe1987 is right. We do have a large enough sample. And the linking examples are good. *NM* Logain - 28/11/2009 09:32:14 PM 353 Views

Re: Well... Logain - 24/11/2009 07:41:57 PM 706 Views

Re: Is Nynaeve of "very rare" strength? Yes *NM* Ryan - 22/11/2009 05:29:17 AM 343 Views

Yes. *NM* Suffa - 24/11/2009 05:56:17 PM 372 Views

Yes. *NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/11/2009 06:22:09 PM 333 Views

Back to Messageboard

Post New Thread

Help

Stats

Rules

Reply to Message

Subject

Formatting

Smiley Codes

Body

<quote id="53716">
<quote>I'll go for 100. That's still a lot of Egwene's in the world.</quote>

Even if there are 100 more, that still represents less than 1% of all female channelers (assuming at the moment there are about 12k)

<quote>Heh... Pamela. My main problem is that we don't have conclusive proof of anything, but the fact that there are even a few women of Egwene's strength imply that there are others out there.</quote>

Of course there are!  Just like there are more Nyn/Sharina/Lanfear, and to your point there will be more Egwene's than Nyns... no arguing that!

But let's note for a moment that in every culture we've seen thus far Egwene level strength has been noted as unusual and commented upon, the WF in TSR talks about Elayne's strength as the reason she believed she and Nyn were AS (the WF know the AS prize strength so she assumes only the very strong would be AS).  Teh Sul'dam prize Egwene for her raw strength as well as her Earth talents.  It's important to note that we know that the Aiel, WF and damane all have women of greater strength floating around, but <i>still</i> comment on Egwene/Elayne/Avi.  That goes a very long way in my mind toward defining where they stand, IMO a looong way above the likes of Moiraine or Amys!

<quote>The disobedience had nothing to do with strength - the three women have never deferred to one another. Elayne was saying that she'd disobey Nynaeve no matter what she said. As for the shielding question, it's a theory out there that Nynaeve wasn't concentrating and hurled an unprepared weave at Elayne. Without her block, and with some decent weaving, she would have easily succeeded. It's true I can't refute your point, but then we've seen that Nynaeve can cut off Moghedien and Talaan with her ability, and they are verifiably stronger than Elayne.</quote>

I disagree.  Elayne never would have made this comment prior to being raised AS.  And they are constantly pissed off that Sisters who should stand far enough below them don't act properly.  We've never seen Nynaeve even think that "Elayne should be serving me tea".  I think it's clear that while Nynaeve is obviously considerably stronger than Elayne, they are much closer to each other than Elayne and Moiraine would have been.

<quote>But Moghedien was addressing both her and Nynaeve. It's unlikely the comments were reserved for Elayne. I think they have about 2/3 of the Forsaken's power i.e. 40 vs 60 out of 100.</quote>

I addressed part of this below, but I still find it amazing that you think any of the Forsaken would be as low as "60/100" ... I'd say even Moghedien would be at least an 80/100

<quote>It's easy to say that Moiraine is wrong, but on the other hand, it's almost the only quote we've got on their relative strengths. Moiraine might not know dung about the Forsaken and their power, but even she can measure the girl's different potentials.</quote>

Fair enough, Moiraine should be able to accurately judge their strength :P

My main point is still the first part of my statement.  Moiraine's hyperbole is meant to make Siuane feel better!  She's talking in terms of political ramifications in the Tower as much as anything else.  Egwene is (at least, per Moiraine) equal to Elayne so they've leveled the playing field with her, and lit a bonfire by doubling up and bringing an even stronger Nynaeve along.  If you take that quote literally Nynaeve is like 1000x stronger and we know that's not the case :)
</quote>

Link title

Link url

Send notification emails?

Username

Password