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And there you have it...Thank you. Shannow Send a noteboard - 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM
One character one time made a comparative call! Egwene and all the others only ever say "such and so was strong enough to Travel" ... that tells us nothing about one Channelers relative strength to another... only that two individuals can each Travel effectively.

You keep arguing that we can measure pure strength based on ability with ONE specific weave, and it's not even the ONLY way to Travel! we know that there are at LEAST two saidar weaves for Traveling. We don't have a clue how strong a woman needs to be to make Aviendha's weave, maybe Sorilea could Travel if she knew that weave.

And the 3rd agers are still learning how various ability combinations are more effective than just raw strength... take Egwene for instance. When thinking about facing a Forsaken her first thought is about linking with the Strongest available women, if she was really thinking it through she should have thought about the women with the strongest abilities with offensive/combat related skills. Maybe Sisters with the best strength in Fire would be better than just stronger AS. She has hundreds of women to add the raw power necessary, but her thoughts just go to fewest possible women in the link for most possible strength... rather silly actually!


You admit that Egwene thought only of matching the STRENGTH of a Forsaken. And therefore, her statement that she doubts whether she plus Romanda plus Lelaine could match a Forsaken is made specifically with comparative effective strength in mind. In other words, she's felt Rand's strength in tSR, and she's using that as a basis for her comparison. And she's seen the amount that Lanfear can channel at the Docks in FoH. Therefore, in her mind, she plus Lelaine plus Romanda would struggle to match the effective STRENGTH of one of those two channelers.

Since she has no idea what Talents, skills or abilities any of the Forsaken might have, all she can base a comparison on is their STRENGTH, which she does happen to know, based on her experiences with Rand and Lanfear.

And it is in this context that Egwene says she and Lelaine and Romanda would struggle to match one Forsaken class channeler.

And since all our gateway discussions and other debates are really indirect attempts to arrive at the comparative strength between Egwene and a Forsaken class channeler, Egwene herself has cut through all the sideshows for us, and you have brought us full circle back to the heart of the matter.

And there we have it, from Egwene herself, and in the context so nicely pointed out by you in the post above. The context of pure STRENGTH.
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I've been playing with some numbers since we've been having all of these OP strength debates darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 06:34:05 PM 1572 Views
There are 21 levels, not 100. More later. *NM* fionwe1987 - 20/12/2009 07:23:18 PM 602 Views
RJ has said a number of times that the 21 level scale darius_sedai - 20/12/2009 07:35:25 PM 956 Views
Few glaring errors... Shannow - 20/12/2009 09:04:55 PM 1133 Views
Re: Few glaring errors... darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 07:52:18 AM 1085 Views
You don't get it, do you... Shannow - 21/12/2009 08:19:00 AM 1068 Views
Didn't you claim that Eggy+Rom+Lel cannot match a male forsaken? Now they can match Lanfear? fionwe1987 - 21/12/2009 04:14:32 PM 941 Views
That only strengthens my point. Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:23:39 PM 1005 Views
No it does not. fionwe1987 - 28/12/2009 02:45:42 AM 1049 Views
What you are missing is that darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 06:46:04 PM 1006 Views
I'm not missing it at all.. Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:58:04 PM 1035 Views
Let's try matching that with the actual text darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 03:01:36 PM 999 Views
Not correct... Shannow - 22/12/2009 03:29:24 PM 1080 Views
Believe as you like, I'm not here to convince you to otherwise, I'm stating how I read the evidence darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 06:01:24 PM 966 Views
You're reading the evidence wrong. Shannow - 22/12/2009 06:27:17 PM 978 Views
RJ also pointed out that Alivia's skill set as a weapon came in handy darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 07:40:35 PM 979 Views
I thought a power law distribution is much more likely, TBH redhand - 20/12/2009 09:39:21 PM 1055 Views
Yes. It essentially refers to a skewed histogram - biased to the lower end of the range... Shannow - 20/12/2009 09:53:18 PM 1088 Views
Corrections Shadowkiller - 21/12/2009 01:48:43 AM 1118 Views
No... Shannow - 21/12/2009 07:47:58 AM 1019 Views
True, the application of this model is inconsistent *NM* Shadowkiller - 21/12/2009 02:34:26 PM 714 Views
Not if you point out that the average AS is not as strong as the overall average channeler darius_sedai - 25/12/2009 04:30:17 AM 967 Views
yet RJ has said flat out that OP strength is on an Bell Curve. Meaning the majority of channelers darius_sedai - 21/12/2009 07:36:22 AM 950 Views
Perhaps... Phelix - 21/12/2009 07:52:13 AM 1065 Views
I've always hated bell curves Ryan - 21/12/2009 03:56:26 PM 1001 Views
The most logical answer is that the average AOL channeler was stronger than the current average... Shannow - 21/12/2009 06:36:07 PM 1025 Views
and that in no way maps to any kind of Bell Curve darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 06:02:41 PM 863 Views
Why? Shannow - 22/12/2009 06:34:25 PM 992 Views
Can you provide the quote where RJ tells us the darius_sedai - 22/12/2009 07:45:04 PM 902 Views
Always go back to the evidence... Shannow - 22/12/2009 09:03:42 PM 1057 Views
I'll respond when you can actually provide a few actual quotes to support any of this darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 03:20:44 PM 937 Views
Name an item you dispute and I will provide the quote.... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:19:49 PM 942 Views
it's addressed below darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:23:58 PM 962 Views
I've been looking into this a bit... and you really do overstate things to suit your arguments darius_sedai - 24/12/2009 06:15:44 PM 981 Views
And in looking for quotes for another thread I came across this gem darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 09:54:34 PM 982 Views
Nice! It proves what I've been saying for ages... fionwe1987 - 29/12/2009 10:13:41 PM 998 Views
Which is why I contend that they are about 80% of Lanfear darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 10:16:07 PM 987 Views
I wasn't trying to rip him a new one. Phelix - 22/12/2009 09:38:43 PM 876 Views
I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/12/2009 08:35:23 PM 1031 Views
Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... Shannow - 22/12/2009 09:21:07 PM 1024 Views
Re: Except that gateway size is used multiple times by characters to judge comparative strength... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/12/2009 11:32:21 PM 1110 Views
I agree that it's practically impossible to determine strength darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 03:19:49 PM 989 Views
How convenient. And by the way, it is NOT tied to a Talent. Anyone who is strong enough, can Travel. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 04:36:24 PM 533 Views
Seriously go re-read the series, how can you have missed that Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 04:54:51 PM 888 Views
It is a weave, the knowledge of which guarantees that you can use it, if you are strong enough... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:35:36 PM 997 Views
Yet every AS can Heal to a degree and Cloud Dancing involves weaves too darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:41:42 PM 1010 Views
Lews Therin can't Heal. Aginor can't Heal. If you don't have the Talent, you can't do it. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:52:02 PM 570 Views
LTT and Aginor have "Little Ability" with Healing darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:02:13 PM 1065 Views
Because the channelers THEMSELVES don't use Healing to judge each other's strength... Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:06:58 PM 944 Views
The Channelers state that there is a minimum level of strength to make the Weave work darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:11:55 PM 1119 Views
Beonin's Gateway darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:30:25 PM 977 Views
No, it makes her 25% as strong as Rand! Thanks for proving my model to be virtually perfect! Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:36:53 PM 922 Views
Nope, Beonin shouldn't be that strong! darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:48:30 PM 907 Views
This is true, however... lyringlas - 23/12/2009 04:55:48 PM 1051 Views
Aviendha's gateway size doesn't decrease. She is just less energy efficient in creating it... Shannow - 23/12/2009 05:30:17 PM 1430 Views
Aviendha is suffering from the second weave limitation darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 05:37:45 PM 1067 Views
Conceded. My faulty memory is to blame in this case. But it doesn't change the rule... Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:01:33 PM 917 Views
I'll give you that there is a stength limitation to Traveling darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:06:41 PM 913 Views
Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:08:17 PM 502 Views
Re: Why do the characters in the books judge each other's strength on gateway size then? darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:20:18 PM 944 Views
And there you have it...Thank you. Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:27:24 PM 971 Views
And linked with Romanda and Lelaine darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:34:42 PM 953 Views
Sorry. That's pure speculation on your part. *NM* Shannow - 23/12/2009 06:38:43 PM 508 Views
No more than yours is! darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 06:49:57 PM 956 Views
That entire passage is in the context of strength... Shannow - 23/12/2009 07:55:50 PM 860 Views
You need to re-read some of this stuff darius_sedai - 23/12/2009 11:01:15 PM 1068 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:38:43 PM 969 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population *NM* Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:41:01 PM 494 Views
Re: I don't think we have a representative sample of the mode in this population darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 06:37:50 PM 984 Views
Goodness Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:37:23 AM 974 Views
I'm working within the context of what we've been told by the author darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:43:31 AM 919 Views
Since you love Wiki so much darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:55:09 AM 922 Views
No you are not Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:58:28 AM 989 Views
Dude we're discussion works of fiction darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 04:08:12 AM 1042 Views
Dumb Bell Distribution of Mongoloid Turings Abunderment - 31/12/2009 04:36:50 AM 1077 Views
Back to school AS, and you will be able to do this Abunderment - 26/12/2009 12:34:39 PM 945 Views
The problem we're working with is that RJ says strength follows a Bell Curve distribution darius_sedai - 26/12/2009 03:29:26 PM 970 Views
And RJ knew his maths (and you don't) Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:22:09 AM 994 Views
I'm not the one who said OP strength followed a Bell Curve Distribution darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:34:55 AM 959 Views
You are the one who is MIS-USING his statement Abunderment - 31/12/2009 03:44:26 AM 946 Views
darius_sedai - 31/12/2009 03:48:20 AM 1223 Views
The pathos of Darius Abunderment - 31/12/2009 04:26:15 AM 983 Views
Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) knightmarea7x - 29/12/2009 12:46:13 AM 883 Views
Re: Is Lanfear the strongest?(now) darius_sedai - 29/12/2009 04:21:47 PM 970 Views
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