Active Users:471 Time:02/05/2025 08:27:28 PM
One of my favorite series! RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM
I don't have any problem with their mention of homosexuality - Baron Harkonnen is a villain who happens to have homosexual encounters. He is not meant to represent the gay community, so I think you are over-analyzing here.

Also, their culture is based off of certain features of human society on Earth, so that woman being in maternal or domestic roles is supposed to be indicative of a throwback to more "traditional" times. After all, this is a futuristic civilization that destroyed all of it's advanced robotics and artificial intelligence - a lot of the roles we see are actually supposed to be from the Orange Catholic Bible and it's supporting texts. You'll notice in future novels that after the God Emperor takes over, gender roles become more fluid and individual, with a generalized meta-evolution of the species being a realized goal of Leto II and Ghanima.

What I think you may be missing is that the book is written in such a way that it leaves a lot to the readers' imagination while a lot of action is happening on-screen. For example, in that last scene, we dip into the thoughts of everyone involved to see that Jessica's arrival was indicated in a prophecy among the Fremen - where you see clunky dialogue, I see a scene description from multiple POVs delivered in one chapter and rather fluidly describing movement and overall composition of the social scene.

Also, I think you are missing the fact that Frank Herbert wrote these characters with an understanding of Jungian psychology and archetypes - many of these characters seem quasi-mythical because they were meant to resemble myths.

You will notice that reading Jessica's critical paper on how the Bene Gesserit lost control of the Kwisatz Haderach project is a very different point of view from the tone used throughout the novel. This is because the point of view used to convey each story is largely different. I think "Chapterhouse Dune" would be more to your liking in terms of traditional POV descriptions - it is less about telling a story to an audience and more about the experience and inner motivations of a few core characters.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 21/04/2010 at 03:40:20 PM
Reply to message
Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 1942 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1056 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1247 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1174 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1175 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1227 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1034 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1063 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 931 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 904 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 896 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1029 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 959 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 941 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 980 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 925 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 955 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1055 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 916 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 921 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 809 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 962 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1036 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 932 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 935 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1418 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 461 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1118 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1071 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1140 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1325 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1079 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1269 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 957 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1524 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1321 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1274 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1202 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 957 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 404 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 409 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1176 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 909 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 855 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 858 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 779 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 900 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 784 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1013 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 978 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 956 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 862 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1127 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 852 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 808 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1077 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 820 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 896 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 857 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1199 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1008 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1048 Views

Reply to Message