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I didn't see that in Alia Larry Send a noteboard - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM
Not much to comment on. "Dune Messiah" is my least favorite of the novels, and it acts as a stop-gap before Leto II and Ghanima accomplish what Paul did not want to do - force an evolution of humanity.

This novel is more about Paul's limitations and his lack of ease with his role. We see Alia pushing her limits constantly and increasing her muscular control and prophetic abilities to a level that Paul has not.

This novel is more like "Oedipus Rex" in that it is largely a tragedy that ends when the next generation of Atreides takes over the rulership from the prior generation.


If anything, Children of Dune makes it clear that Alia doesn't have prescient powers. Rather, she just has her ancestral memories to fall back upon to guide her, a very dangerous development as is seen in Children of Dune.

I'll agree that it's a tragedy, but Oedipus Rex wasn't exactly the type of story that came to mind when I read this, unless you're also thinking of the king who had his son exposed to the elements because of an Oracle?
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) Larry - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 2064 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune HyogaRott - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1166 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune Larry - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1368 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune HyogaRott - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1291 Views
Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there. lord-of-shadow - 17/04/2010 06:54:14 PM 1339 Views
Re: Not all themes are intended by the author. That doesn't mean they aren't there. HyogaRott - 17/04/2010 10:44:18 PM 1182 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" Larry - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1290 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" HyogaRott - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1345 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? Chas - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1146 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? HyogaRott - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1206 Views
That was most of my issue. Chas - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 1065 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. HyogaRott - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 1021 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. Chas - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 1004 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme random thoughts - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1152 Views
Thank you for saying concisely the point I have been trying to make. *NM* HyogaRott - 21/04/2010 06:34:12 PM 490 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present Larry - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 1082 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present DomA - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 1054 Views
Good points Larry - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 1113 Views
Re: Good points DomA - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 1055 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing random thoughts - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 1063 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present HyogaRott - 22/04/2010 04:08:28 PM 997 Views
Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects Larry - 22/04/2010 09:28:05 PM 1118 Views
Re: Texts have different interpretations and Readers emphasize different aspects HyogaRott - 23/04/2010 05:22:22 PM 1030 Views
Re: Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme Chas - 29/04/2010 11:36:45 PM 1137 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. Ghavrel - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1168 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. HyogaRott - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 1040 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly Larry - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 1028 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. Ghavrel - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 939 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? random thoughts - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 1086 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. HyogaRott - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1178 Views
Funny the things people focus on Larry - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 1049 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on HyogaRott - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 1046 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book random thoughts - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1553 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* Ghavrel - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 518 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune random thoughts - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1234 Views
Ecology goes more than one way Larry - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1175 Views
There are several points to the book/series Larry - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1266 Views
Everyone get something different from a book random thoughts - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1440 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series Larry - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1192 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts Lordling - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1367 Views
Well, I enjoyed more of the characters this time around, if that helps Larry - 18/04/2010 12:14:43 AM 1256 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 1073 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune DomA - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1650 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom Larry - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1451 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom DomA - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1407 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom Macharius - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1311 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom DomA - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 1073 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* Macharius - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 464 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* Larry - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 469 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1424 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 1057 Views
I didn't see that in Alia Larry - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 989 Views
There were a few scenes displaying Alia's abilities/mindset. (spoilers) RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/04/2010 03:54:32 PM 982 Views
OK, that makes a bit more sense, as I wasn't for sure what you were arguing at first Larry - 22/04/2010 09:14:46 PM 1094 Views
One of my favorite series! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 985 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it Larry - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 906 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it RugbyPlayingAshaman - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 1019 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately Larry - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 938 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... DomA - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1129 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 1111 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune Brian - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 1084 Views
Depends Larry - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 985 Views
Re: Depends Brian - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1363 Views
read something else random thoughts - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 976 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) Larry - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 926 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1227 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 955 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) DomA - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 1038 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books Larry - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 971 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books DomA - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1340 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) Larry - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1143 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) DomA - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1184 Views
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