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Good points Larry Send a noteboard - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM
And those ecological structures and how they affect the narrative history seems to be a theme in the Herbert novels.


That's indeed one of the 5-6 main themes of the novel as defined by Herbert himself. By that he meant the main ideas he had decided to explore. Rather than writing essays, Herbert used fiction. Most of his novels are speculative fiction in the purest sensse.

Some others "themes" I remember:

- How the scarcity of a vital resource tend to make it the pivot of economy and politics and defined the limit of the possible. It was a topic of exploration inspired by the oil crisis which was already predicted at the time.

- A deconstructiom of the myth of the Hero, worshipped by humans since the beginning of times, in myth and religions and history. Herbert believed that Heroes, especially the Superhero kind, were disastrous for humanity. In Dune, he meant to project this idea on a galactic scale and put the survival of all humanity itself into the balance.

- How the cult of the superhero too often lead to theocracy, and how mixing up religion and politics constantly lead to fanatism and disaster. Herbert thought theocracy the worst kind of government.

There were a few more, I'd need to look. IIRC, Herbert spoke of that in the foreword to one of the novels in the French edition (his forewords/afterwords, or those of his French publisher aren't in the American editions).

Of course there's minor themes and ideas by the dozen, as in all of Herbert's books.

Among other things, Dune has also fascinated economists in Europe in the 70s.



I had wondered at some of your earlier comments about the first book. May be due to the different appendices/forewords? And the economic aspect is certainly a key one and the Hero element is one I may want to explore in full more in the God-Emperor of Dune essay.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 2066 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1167 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1369 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1292 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1291 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1346 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1147 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1206 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 1067 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 1022 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 1005 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1153 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 1083 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 1056 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 1115 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 1056 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 1064 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1169 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 1041 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 1029 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 941 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 1087 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1179 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 1050 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 1047 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1554 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 518 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1235 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1176 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1267 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1441 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1193 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1368 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 1074 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1650 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1452 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1408 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1313 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 1075 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 465 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 470 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1425 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 1058 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 991 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 986 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 907 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 1019 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 939 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1130 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 1112 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 1085 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 986 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1365 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 977 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 927 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1228 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 956 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 1038 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 972 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1341 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1144 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1186 Views

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