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I read the wiki synopses of those two books Larry Send a noteboard - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM
wonder if Heretics of Dune was indeed conceived as the opener of a trilogy, as it had the feel of setting up situations and the chief participants more than it did as something that could be read semi-independently of the other novels.

It was the opener to a trilogy from the get go.


I know, I was just wondering if it would have been a single remaining book or two. Of course, I stated that before I finished Chapterhouse last night.

The "original" Dune was a duology, before it was decided to make Dune Messiah a book in itself and not last part of Dune.

Herbert much later decided to return to the Dune world with God-Emperor, which was a stand-alone in his mind (it became a bridge book onkly after the fact).


And before it became the linchpin of the series, as I'm starting to view it.

He decided later to tell the story of the result to Leto's plans, and that he did conceive of as a trilogy from the start, with the two first volumes published and the third one (which remains open ended in the Dune style, but less so than previous ones) outlined.


I hope that outline will be published one day, maybe within 10 years, when it'll be the centennial of Frank Herbert's birth?

If you don't have the patience to suffer through the awfully written two-volumes Dune 7 by KJA-BH to dig up in the dross the concepts and ideas Herbert intended to explore through the ending (they are quite apparent still, especially after having read the other books so recently, though they aren't developped with anything near the intelligence of Frank), just ask and I'll tell you about what I remember. You read so fast that I almost recommend you pick the books, though. I found the ideas interesting enough, even if as novels this is real garbage.


Well, having read 3 of the prequel novels by them while metaphorically pinching my nose, I have no desire to torture myself any further. Frank Herbert wasn't an elegant writer and sometimes a few of his ideas and takes on human life irritate, but he at his worst was worlds better than what I endured in reading two of the House novels and the first Jihad book. xx(

I just don't see where there's enough foreshadowing in the six original books for there to be two thinking machines being a main threat. Marty and Daniel seemed to be something else. The bit about Duncan Idaho's "ultimate" role, however, I thought was foreshadowed in Chapterhouse and I would have loved to have seen what Frank Herbert would have done with it.

Whatever you do, don't read the prequels, and definitely don't read them first. KJA-BH liberally stole from the outline of Dune 7 to "set things up", and setting things up in their mind was spoiling everything by extending every good idea into elaborate and boring storylines set thousands of years before., as they believed Frank's outline for Dune 7 was "too complex" and required much backstory (which was plainly wrong: Frank would have managed to include everyhting and make everything clear within a 300 or 400 pages book, but he just didn't spoon feed his readers as if they were dumb the way KJA does) What they achieved is that every idea in Dune 7 feels quite stale and predictable once you get there (and I don't mean it spoil the plot, I mean the way they bring them up through the prequels in a very b;ah and pedestrian way sort of ruin the ideas themselves...)


That is true, Frank Herbert certainly didn't think his readers were "dumb" and had to have everything explained to them. His approach made me slow down a bit, since there was much to consider before I could weigh in on some of his idea presentations, but when I read the prequels, they felt like a bad Babelfish translation more than anything coherent and interesting in their own right.
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 1973 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1091 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1276 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1206 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1207 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1258 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1064 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1099 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 976 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 942 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 924 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1068 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 998 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 978 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 1017 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 967 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 997 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1085 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 960 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 952 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 846 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 1003 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1079 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 970 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 974 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1457 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 478 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1149 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1106 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1171 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1355 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1118 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1298 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 993 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1553 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1349 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1305 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1230 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 993 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 422 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 426 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1221 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 943 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 892 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 896 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 815 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 937 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 823 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1051 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 1017 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 990 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 901 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1248 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 884 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 842 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1123 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 858 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 932 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 889 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1233 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1042 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1083 Views

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