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Re: Again... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM

Yes. Unless they were not yet hidden by the Fidelius Charm at that point. As I said, I don't have my books at hand. Does it state unequivocally that they were hidden by the charm when the letter was written?

Well, I checked, and its pretty much proved that they were indeed under the charm.

Dumbledore in the last part of DH:

You have guessed, I know, why the Cloak was in my possession
on the night your parents died. James had showed it to me just
a few days previously.


There. We know the Potters died about a week after the charm. The cloak left them a "few days" before their death. Now, it isn't certain that few days>around a week here, but it seems to be so.

Further, Lily says that Wormtail dropped by last weekend and looked down, which Harry immediately says must have been the last time he saw them, after which he betrayed them.

Plus (wow, never knew this tiny detail from book 1 could be so critical), we know that Harry was delivered to Petunia's house on a Tuesday night (When Mr. and Mrs. Durs ley woke up on the dull, grey Tuesday our story starts...). In the morning, word of the Potter's death was spreading, so the death must have been on Monday. The letter then had to have been written between the previous Sunday and the Sunday before their death. Since Lily says last weekend, rather than x number of days ago, this leads me to believe it was written between Thurday and Sunday. Either way, this is way less than one week before their death, meaning several things:

1) Since Lily says Bathilda visits often (with no indication of discontinuance), this means Bathilda must have been quite addled not to reveal that Sirius wasn't Secret Keeper.

2) Since well after the charm kicked into effect, James couldn't leave the house without the Invisibility Cloak, the theory that his family, and not his house, was the subject of the charm is completely disproved.


Because you have still not shown that they were hidden by the Charm at that point. I don't have the books here, and nothing of what you have quoted states that unequivocally.

Perhaps it might be better to hold off this discussion until we reach the relevant book.

See above. This book has suddenly become very relevant. :P


They could drop down to the post office? I thought they couldn't leave the house in your scenario.

If they left, they wouldn't be hidden. Just like outside of Grimmauld Plce, the Order isn't invisible.



See above. Also, that would be equally unproblematic if they were hidden, rather than their house. It contributes nothing to your argument if that were the case.

If they were hidden, how did they convince the people at the post office to give them anything? Or are you saying they sneaked in and took stuff?

Either way, turns out Petunia's vase was sent for Christmas, so that isn't a problem. Sirius's gift to Harry is, though. But since he was likely told by Pettigrew, maybe he could have an owl deliver?


That depends entirely on what they do for the Order. We are getting into the realm of unfounded speculation.

Oh come on! They fought Voldy four times and survived. Which means they were threatened. Which means they were seen, and which also means they moved their arses from Godric's Hollow (unless you want to claim they fought Voldemort at home 4 times). That's quite enough detail into what they did, and staying at home didn't come into it.

See, it is perfectly possible to use "destination" and "sight" figuratively. It proves nothing either way.

How was it used figuratively? He saw a building and said he had reached his destination. The meaning is quite clear and direct.



How could I read the whole paragraph when you didn't quote it until now? As I said initially, I do not have my books where I am.

Sorry, I didn't know that.


Yes. It still proves nothing, but it fits better with your version of events.

What will constitute proof for you? A statement from Voldemort that he meant the house, and four witnesses to attest to his honesty and sanity? We're discussing stuff from a novel here. All we can take is the meaning of the words in it. And it clearly states that Voldemort thought the house was his destination, and he says that since he can see it, the charm must be broken.



"Destination" could have been used on anything from the death of the child to whoknowswhat. It functions as a very wide metaphor when used figuratively.

But how is it figurative in this instance? I'm quite at a loss over your confusion here.


Because it is not conclusive. It is suggestive, but can be explained away.

Nope. See above on that. There's a plot hole here, pure and simple.


By that argument, they could have gone to Hogwarts and started killing children to force the Potters out. It is not an argument.

But Dumbledore was at Hogwarts. He wasn't at Godric's Hollow. Something being impossible at Hogwarts doesn't in any way mean it is impossible elsewhere.
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Re: The magic wasnt really developed at this point - 14/07/2010 08:53:08 PM 1929 Views
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Re: There was one powerful protection - 15/07/2010 08:12:40 AM 1974 Views
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I felt bad for Neville. - 14/07/2010 09:03:49 PM 1833 Views
Indeed. - 14/07/2010 09:05:40 PM 1691 Views
But it doesn't tell you what you've forgotten! - 15/07/2010 02:51:47 AM 1985 Views
I know, right! - 15/07/2010 06:41:01 AM 1683 Views
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Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 07:14:08 PM 1732 Views
I hear you - 15/07/2010 08:22:05 PM 1751 Views
Re: Two separate things: - 15/07/2010 08:48:21 PM 1732 Views
I can clarify some stuff for you - 15/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1815 Views
One of the most sublime, wonderful moments of any book - 15/07/2010 08:18:29 PM 1593 Views
Yes! - 15/07/2010 10:39:11 PM 1758 Views
Lovely - 15/07/2010 09:00:11 PM 1843 Views
Haha - 15/07/2010 09:16:16 PM 1891 Views
Re: Haha - 15/07/2010 09:24:06 PM 1783 Views
But I thought all girls were made of sugar and spice and everything nice? - 15/07/2010 09:26:53 PM 1681 Views
Oh, we are. - 15/07/2010 09:35:17 PM 1580 Views
Ah like vodka vs. wine coolers? *NM* - 15/07/2010 09:48:26 PM 950 Views
Gin - 15/07/2010 09:49:33 PM 1701 Views
I was 16. - 15/07/2010 10:49:33 PM 1594 Views
So was I - 15/07/2010 10:54:24 PM 1624 Views
Honestly, dumbledore is a bit of an ass... - 15/07/2010 10:48:32 PM 1590 Views
Heresy! - 15/07/2010 10:55:28 PM 1626 Views
As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 03:05:05 AM 1899 Views
Re: As I indicated below, I had some issues. - 16/07/2010 11:14:56 AM 1763 Views
In fairness, it's Hogwarts itself that is all but impregnable. - 26/07/2010 03:55:02 PM 1718 Views
A funny thing I noticed - 15/07/2010 09:00:42 PM 1806 Views
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Overall thoughts for the book - 12/07/2010 08:31:37 AM 1759 Views
Foreshadowing and setting up the future - 12/07/2010 08:32:10 AM 1685 Views
Harry's anger management issues? - 12/07/2010 07:14:58 PM 1739 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:40:40 PM 1781 Views
Nah, not deliberate. - 12/07/2010 09:14:20 PM 1837 Views
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Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:02:59 PM 1690 Views
Re: Nah, not deliberate. - 13/07/2010 03:04:42 PM 1816 Views
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Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:39:25 PM 1802 Views
Re: I noticed a lot of this. - 12/07/2010 07:45:32 PM 1782 Views
~smug~ - 13/07/2010 02:09:15 PM 1754 Views
Indeed. - 13/07/2010 02:10:41 PM 1994 Views
This response implies the experience of being both?? - 13/07/2010 03:23:29 PM 1738 Views
On Ginny: - 12/07/2010 10:36:47 PM 1854 Views
So much (chapters 1-3) *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:35:57 PM 1975 Views
Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:38:05 PM 1817 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:08 PM 1846 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:39:53 PM 1649 Views
Re: Hm. - 12/07/2010 07:44:16 PM 1546 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 04:41:12 AM 1667 Views
Re: Hm. - 13/07/2010 08:55:09 AM 1665 Views
I missed the school roof thing this time around too! Good catch there. *NM* - 12/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 977 Views
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Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:30:23 PM 1789 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 10:55:01 PM 1715 Views
Re: Some stuff (chapters 4-11) - 14/07/2010 11:05:59 PM 1733 Views
I can answer your consistency question! - 15/07/2010 02:35:42 AM 1863 Views
You are a clever cookie. - 15/07/2010 08:14:25 AM 1731 Views
Yes - 15/07/2010 03:30:36 PM 1580 Views
Ooh, yes. - 16/07/2010 12:19:13 AM 1569 Views
More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 08:55:34 PM 1623 Views
Re: More stuff (chapters 12-17) - 15/07/2010 09:19:13 PM 1700 Views
Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:23:15 PM 1826 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 04:28:04 PM 1724 Views
Re: Tiny tiny inconsistency (?) in Ch. 12 - 17/07/2010 07:12:39 PM 1983 Views
I like it. Thank you. - 20/07/2010 12:53:37 AM 1905 Views
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I have no idea *spoilers* - 12/07/2010 07:47:58 PM 1900 Views
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It has tons of things in it that every kid dreams of doing - 14/07/2010 01:56:05 PM 1849 Views
Kid? - 14/07/2010 02:01:30 PM 1855 Views
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Not even just the super stuff Deadsy mentions. - 14/07/2010 04:38:46 PM 1975 Views
It's a simple, well-done little book. - 12/07/2010 07:46:48 PM 1821 Views
you don't read instructions, do you? - 12/07/2010 07:49:24 PM 1892 Views
Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:50:23 PM 1819 Views
Re: Heh. - 12/07/2010 07:51:40 PM 1826 Views
Awwww! - 12/07/2010 07:52:19 PM 1756 Views
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Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:50:44 PM 1868 Views
Re: Wha? - 12/07/2010 07:52:21 PM 1853 Views
Pff. - 12/07/2010 07:54:54 PM 1849 Views
*NM* - 12/07/2010 07:56:03 PM 1153 Views
When did you pick up this book? - 12/07/2010 11:30:46 PM 1775 Views
I was 10. - 13/07/2010 04:13:44 AM 1920 Views
I was 16. - 13/07/2010 08:24:02 AM 1849 Views
1999 - 13/07/2010 09:03:03 AM 1831 Views
What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:15:40 PM 1978 Views
Re: What do you mean by adult version? - 13/07/2010 02:17:40 PM 1822 Views
Just before the first movie came out - 13/07/2010 02:17:42 PM 2000 Views
When Prisoner of Azkaban was a hardback. - 13/07/2010 02:23:57 PM 1844 Views
Just after Goblet of Fire was published. - 13/07/2010 11:50:38 PM 1912 Views
Just before Goblet of Fire came out. - 14/07/2010 04:04:21 AM 1874 Views
The first five were out, waited for HBP. - 14/07/2010 06:20:39 AM 1996 Views
You're making me want to talk about toadface - 14/07/2010 02:06:25 PM 1881 Views
Sorry! - 15/07/2010 06:36:11 AM 1919 Views
I held out quite awhile because I don't like "fads" - 14/07/2010 02:04:37 PM 1808 Views
Lol! - 14/07/2010 08:54:47 PM 1934 Views
I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 06:39:16 AM 1923 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 10:01:04 AM 2091 Views
Re: I did the same thing. - 15/07/2010 05:44:28 PM 1976 Views
I would have, if I had known there was hype. I know I would have. - 15/07/2010 03:28:50 PM 1965 Views
- 15/07/2010 05:47:01 PM 1982 Views
I think I was first! - 23/07/2010 07:05:08 PM 1928 Views
Aged 13 or 14 - a while before the first movie (which was Christmas 2001). *NM* - 26/07/2010 04:13:55 PM 1137 Views
Jesus Christ. - 26/07/2010 05:04:46 PM 2065 Views
^That was me. *NM* - 26/07/2010 09:55:49 PM 1131 Views
I was going to ask if it was. *NM* - 26/07/2010 10:04:59 PM 1116 Views
Suggestions for the Re-read - 12/07/2010 08:33:25 AM 1866 Views
I like it so far - 13/07/2010 10:16:49 AM 1867 Views
I can try that for the next book. - 13/07/2010 11:21:01 PM 1862 Views
Can we get chapter discussions everyday? *NM* - 15/07/2010 06:40:30 PM 1098 Views
Inconsistencies Re: the Potter's death... - 15/07/2010 05:16:45 AM 2194 Views
Because they were tricked? They considered Peter and Sirius to be brothers. - 15/07/2010 07:05:27 AM 1849 Views
That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 01:08:40 AM 1780 Views
Take it up with Rowling, since you don't believe me. *NM* - 16/07/2010 08:19:58 AM 1048 Views
What's there to believe? - 18/07/2010 06:03:13 AM 1868 Views
Re: That's nonsense.. - 16/07/2010 09:37:59 AM 1978 Views
Also - 16/07/2010 11:17:51 AM 2208 Views
You are correct! There is no inconsistency - 17/07/2010 04:17:35 AM 1902 Views
Huh? - 18/07/2010 05:57:58 AM 1776 Views
But Camilla explained it! - 18/07/2010 09:27:55 AM 2096 Views
Correction - 18/07/2010 10:58:59 AM 1902 Views
I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:42:18 PM 1792 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 05:51:36 PM 1803 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:17:04 PM 2097 Views
Re: I'm fairly certain you guys have that totally wrong... - 18/07/2010 06:28:27 PM 1803 Views
That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:17:14 PM 1866 Views
Re: That bothers me too. - 18/07/2010 07:20:44 PM 1746 Views
Yet... - 18/07/2010 07:47:56 PM 1817 Views
Re: Yet... - 18/07/2010 08:02:31 PM 1856 Views
To quote Dumbledore... - 19/07/2010 05:57:23 AM 1750 Views
Again... - 18/07/2010 07:35:10 PM 2040 Views
Re: Again... - 18/07/2010 08:00:55 PM 1858 Views
Re: Again... - 19/07/2010 06:33:13 AM 2042 Views
Re: Again... - 20/07/2010 04:45:16 PM 1857 Views
Yet another load of bosh. - 21/07/2010 01:00:14 AM 1838 Views
Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 06:48:45 AM 1945 Views
Re: Then let's leave it. - 21/07/2010 04:19:35 PM 1850 Views
My two cents - 19/07/2010 06:11:30 AM 1902 Views
It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 12:11:20 AM 2302 Views
Re: It was just the sort of things these two daredevils would do... - 14/09/2010 09:20:46 AM 1729 Views
You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 04:23:31 PM 1812 Views
Re: You have to wonder if that's actually true. - 26/07/2010 05:06:43 PM 2044 Views
I don't know that I'd call it "see through Pettigrew"... - 26/07/2010 06:22:19 PM 1832 Views
^That was me, too. Oh, dear. - 26/07/2010 09:56:43 PM 2033 Views
Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 18/07/2010 07:14:21 PM 1787 Views
Re: Since Lily and James were unable to leave the house - 26/07/2010 05:07:48 PM 2249 Views
^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 09:58:07 PM 1833 Views
Re: ^ And this, too, was me. - 26/07/2010 10:05:41 PM 1768 Views
- 26/07/2010 10:07:36 PM 1660 Views

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