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Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher Send a noteboard - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM
If I wrote a story about coal miners, would I also get in trouble if the vast majority of my characters were men, and had no women who worked down in the mine?

4.The story revolved around sword and axe style fighting and guess what. There never were a lot women involved in that sort of fighting or anything other sort of warfare for that matter. Yes the occasional exception that proves the rule through out history war has been the providence of men. To criticize Tolkien for reflecting that is to criticize reality for not meeting your expectations.
"And it breaks my heart to look around, and see the unimpressed; who can't believe the emperor is dressed"~Fastball
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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy Larry - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1912 Views
Nonsense, at least in part Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1519 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here Larry - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1287 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1318 Views
i agree, and furthermore... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1390 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here dacole - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1357 Views
Mno Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1402 Views
Have to agree. Seriana Sedai - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1400 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. Tim - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1186 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* Ghavrel - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1270 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1362 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 1139 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... Legolas - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1376 Views
mmm, except it's relevant to Bella too. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:03 PM 1264 Views
That's my point, it's pretty much only relevant to Bella - only there is it shown prominently. *NM* Legolas - 29/07/2010 10:59:54 PM 584 Views
Of course, since she's the main character, it matters rather a lot, yes? *NM* Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:39:07 AM 570 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. Ghavrel - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1352 Views
Fair enough. Legolas - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1385 Views
Also: the writing is crap. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1307 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 551 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1289 Views
To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1185 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1348 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1365 Views
and I will random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 1094 Views
that's fair enough then LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 1135 Views
so I hear random thoughts - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 1095 Views
Re: To the end dacole - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1218 Views
Re: To the end Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1140 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? Legolas - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1350 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* Dark Knight - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 652 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now Lordling - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1155 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 1138 Views
well you have not failed completely random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 1117 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1158 Views
one quick question random thoughts - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1186 Views
Re: one quick question Camilla - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1222 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity random thoughts - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 1123 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read Larry - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1258 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read Camilla - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1214 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? random thoughts - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 1119 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1226 Views
Agreed, although, Camilla - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1197 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. Legolas - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 1136 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 1127 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. dacole - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1256 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1234 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. Rebekah - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1183 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1353 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 592 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 1140 Views
Oh, agreed. Camilla - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1257 Views
Incidentall Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1233 Views
Ha! Larry - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1385 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1229 Views
Ah Larry - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1273 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. Legolas - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1325 Views
I can see your points there Larry - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1261 Views
I completely agree that there should be no sacred cows, and that applies to Tolkien. Tom - 28/07/2010 11:13:39 PM 1246 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1258 Views
all art forms have sacred cows random thoughts - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1322 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. Gher - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1192 Views
women deserve black lung too!! LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 1103 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did random thoughts - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1177 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. fionwe1987 - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1495 Views
Disappointing. Werthead - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1297 Views
Re: Disappointing. Camilla - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1252 Views
Probably in the sense... Jacob - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 1140 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. Werthead - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 1109 Views
agreed. *NM* LadyLorraine - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 568 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. Tom - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1502 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works lyringlas - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1619 Views
No it wasn't. Tom - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1301 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy dacole - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1298 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. everynametaken - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1323 Views
This. *NM* Dan - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1375 Views
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