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I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM
"A quest dynamic with an unworthy and somewhat unwilling hero and an object of mighty plot power" is "poor narrative model?" Tell that to Homer, Vergil, and Dante. I find this sort of attempt to redefine what constitutes a good plot to be distinctly unimpressive and wholly unconvincing. At worst, it smacks of the sort of historical absolutism that makes people denounce the fact that Jefferson owned slaves. Particularly egregious is the attack against Tolkien's "romanticization" of the countryside, as though we should additionally throw Shelley, Keats, and Bryant under the train of the twenty first century.

Look, I agree Tolkien's work isn't perfect. But it's a sore spot of mine when people categorically ignore the context in which something was done. In fairness, this applies to appreciation just as strongly, and someone not recognizing the role of history in Tolkien's women is definitely cause for concern. And frankly I agree with Camilla; the vast majority of criticism seems spurred on by its being in vogue.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

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Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 28/07/2010 10:02:39 PM 1857 Views
Nonsense, at least in part - 28/07/2010 10:19:19 PM 1435 Views
I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 28/07/2010 10:40:42 PM 1230 Views
So we should judge the Iliad against modren fantasy novels? - 29/07/2010 12:04:32 PM 1251 Views
i agree, and furthermore... - 29/07/2010 08:46:07 PM 1323 Views
Re: I know there is a polite difference of opinion here - 29/07/2010 08:44:24 PM 1279 Views
Mno - 30/07/2010 09:07:18 AM 1342 Views
Have to agree. - 28/07/2010 11:38:37 PM 1327 Views
It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 09:44:53 AM 1134 Views
*cough* Twilight *cough* - 29/07/2010 10:15:13 AM 1213 Views
I was gonna mention that one too. - 29/07/2010 10:35:17 AM 1272 Views
Mmm. I read an interesting article actually... - 29/07/2010 08:24:04 PM 1081 Views
That's a fair point, I guess... - 29/07/2010 09:18:13 PM 1281 Views
It's hardly tacit. I'm glad I've never read the things. - 30/07/2010 09:38:33 AM 1294 Views
Fair enough. - 30/07/2010 10:03:07 AM 1320 Views
Also: the writing is crap. - 29/07/2010 01:04:12 PM 1220 Views
but plenty of us hate it after reading *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:24:35 PM 522 Views
How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 12:23:28 PM 1234 Views
To the end - 29/07/2010 12:59:25 PM 1116 Views
my reading time is too scarce to think that way - 29/07/2010 01:21:26 PM 1289 Views
I agree, but HP is a good example of something you should keep reading - 29/07/2010 08:27:20 PM 1289 Views
and I will - 29/07/2010 09:13:03 PM 1009 Views
that's fair enough then - 29/07/2010 10:43:57 PM 1074 Views
so I hear - 29/07/2010 11:13:09 PM 1041 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 08:49:06 PM 1161 Views
Re: To the end - 29/07/2010 10:34:44 PM 1087 Views
Re: How much do you have to read to form an opinion? - 29/07/2010 01:49:21 PM 1278 Views
The books mature as Harry does. You should really give it another shot *NM* - 29/07/2010 03:00:37 PM 624 Views
He doesn't want to, so why should he? It's not like you or he is losing anything now - 29/07/2010 06:15:58 PM 1097 Views
It is a case of the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing, only much older - 29/07/2010 06:27:07 PM 1045 Views
well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:50:15 PM 1047 Views
Re: well you have not failed completely - 29/07/2010 06:53:38 PM 1106 Views
one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:38:00 PM 1137 Views
Re: one quick question - 29/07/2010 07:42:27 PM 1169 Views
well I am not a big enough hypocrite to look down on verbosity - 29/07/2010 08:30:56 PM 1070 Views
I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 07:44:40 PM 1202 Views
Re: I have a new essay I want you to read - 29/07/2010 10:42:05 PM 1159 Views
how many books do I have to read to get to the grown up books? - 29/07/2010 06:42:37 PM 1063 Views
Book 3 is the beginning of the adult ones, imo. - 29/07/2010 06:44:07 PM 1168 Views
Agreed, although, - 29/07/2010 06:54:14 PM 1131 Views
None of them are "geared towards grown ups" - it's still a YA series. - 29/07/2010 07:03:24 PM 1081 Views
They're all "light reading" for adults, geared towards YA readers. - 29/07/2010 08:29:01 PM 1059 Views
Re: It seemed to be that way with Harry Potter just when after it had started to get big. - 29/07/2010 08:45:58 PM 1187 Views
it's not supposed to be on par with adult fantasy. - 29/07/2010 08:49:16 PM 1181 Views
I'd argue it's better than Jordan and others from a literary standpoint. - 29/07/2010 09:14:07 PM 1124 Views
I have always thought Jordan had some interesting themes but they were often ignored... - 29/07/2010 09:27:12 PM 1279 Views
lol. it's hard to fail with such low preliminary standards *NM* - 29/07/2010 10:46:07 PM 547 Views
good points, i bow to your wisdom - 29/07/2010 10:45:29 PM 1056 Views
Oh, agreed. - 30/07/2010 09:05:17 AM 1201 Views
Incidentall - 28/07/2010 10:39:52 PM 1174 Views
Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:41:41 PM 1304 Views
Re: Ha! - 28/07/2010 10:45:38 PM 1179 Views
Ah - 28/07/2010 10:49:22 PM 1217 Views
I agree Tolkien should not be a sacred cow or put on a pedestal overmuch. - 28/07/2010 11:10:37 PM 1264 Views
I can see your points there - 28/07/2010 11:18:59 PM 1191 Views
I grow weary of people refusing to view LotR in context. - 28/07/2010 11:14:07 PM 1206 Views
all art forms have sacred cows - 29/07/2010 01:38:26 AM 1268 Views
Yeah, it was the line about women waiting at home while their men went to war that made me laugh. - 29/07/2010 06:44:34 PM 1140 Views
women deserve black lung too!! - 29/07/2010 08:35:17 PM 1046 Views
nah the smart ones do like my grandmother did - 29/07/2010 09:15:14 PM 1125 Views
All Tolkien-haters are morons. - 29/07/2010 03:30:27 AM 1443 Views
Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 04:41:34 AM 1207 Views
Re: Disappointing. - 29/07/2010 09:19:25 AM 1181 Views
Probably in the sense... - 29/07/2010 02:57:47 PM 1080 Views
Perhaps more of 'a complication' to good discussion. - 29/07/2010 08:28:59 PM 1051 Views
agreed. *NM* - 29/07/2010 08:32:36 PM 540 Views
I think you are ignoring the key fact that the Silmarillion was never published by Tolkien. - 30/07/2010 01:48:14 PM 1446 Views
The Silmarillion was actually one of Tolkien's first works - 30/07/2010 06:12:31 PM 1542 Views
No it wasn't. - 30/07/2010 06:37:19 PM 1224 Views
Re: Tolkien as a sacred cow of fantasy - 29/07/2010 08:42:04 PM 1226 Views
I find the Tolkien lovers to be obnoxious in their never ending masturbatory praise of his works. - 30/07/2010 06:09:42 AM 1226 Views
This. *NM* - 30/07/2010 07:43:24 PM 1299 Views

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