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apparently you cant read... MalkierKnight Send a noteboard - 25/03/2011 12:37:51 AM
im not lamenting the suddenly new fact that martin takes 6 years to finish a book, though this is the longest he has ever taken. i am lamenting the fact that he has no good excuse for this other than laziness or neglect. THAT is a justified complaint to which martin hasnt really responded. his excuses were valid for 3 years and 4 years, MAYBE even 5 years, but 6? theres no excuse, whatsoever.


So you admit that a 5-year wait would have been understandable but at 6 it magically becomes outrageous (not that we're actually at 6 until October)? That seems a bit arbitrary.

The average, AVERAGE, author writes around 2k words per day.


That's the average, so there's people who write a lot more than that (Erikson, Dan Abnett, Sanderson) and people who write a lot less than that. Scott Bakker's daily word target is something like 700 words, which some people think is absurdly low, but that still produces a 400-600 page book every 2-3 years (I believe Guy Kay is somewhere around the same).

When you factor in the fact that A DANCE WITH DRAGONS is more than twice the size of the average Bakker or Kay novel, then the conclusion must be that there's a fair few other fantasy authors out there who are dicking around and showing disrespect to their fans etc.

Some, more prolific and more experienced authors write at a higher rate. So I find it inexcusable that he has taken 6 years, AND counting, to write one. He is either lazy or just neglecting his duties to the book. Either makes him unfaithful to his fans.


Are there more experienced genre authors than GRRM out there writing 450,000-word novels at a faster speed than GRRM? Who?

And as I pointed out above, it won't be 'counting' until after October. The wait has been frustratingly long enough without people trying to whack an extra year on top of it for no discernible reason.

I think he deserves some credit for trying to be faithful to his story, and his work. He is clearly very meticulous about his writing. But that doesn't change the fact that he's not writing as much as he should. When push comes to shove a writers job is to write, and to write for the people who plan on reading his book.


I think a writers 'job' is to write the best book they possibly can. Obviously there is no logical automatic correlation between writing speed and quality, but in this specific case with the specific issues that Martin has faced which have been gone into quite publicly and in some depth before, it is clear that simply 'getting on with it' is not the answer, especially since those advocating 'getting on with it' have never, not once in five years of bitching, ever offered any viable solutions to those specific problems that were superior to the conclusions GRRM himself reached after writing through the process.

I'm just saying that this notion that he's been hard at work, carefully crafting adwd for the last six years is absurd.


If this is so, I want to know where those 1,600 manuscript pages that have gone into the book (not mentioning the additional pages that have moved into Book 6) have magically appeared from.

RJ, even at his slowest, was putting out a book every two years, maybe three. And that's around the time he was diagnosed with amyloidosis. A guy who has a serious heart disease can put out a book every three years, but martin is writing at half the pace?


Jordan was diagnosed with amyloidosis during the signing tour for KNIFE OF DREAMS. So he wrote and published exactly zero books after being diagnosed with his illness, since he was undergoing incredibly debilitating treatment for it.

He did, however, put a Herculean amount of effort and energy at a difficult time into providing notes, outlines, dictations, character studies etc for the conclusion of the series to be written by someone else. That is an impressive undertaking given his condition and something that I'm not trying to belittle. Just that the comparison you raise is invalid.


i said that 5 years would be the highest conceivable amount of time that it would take someone to write an epic fantasy novel. not that 5 was acceptable but six wasnt. the paradox of the heap notwithstanding, this is a trivial point as it seems clear that when there are a multitude of authors who put out books at a yearly or biyearly pace. why should grrm be any different?

im a student, and an aspiring author, and dont find it hard to write 1-2k words per day along with maintaining my studies. surely a professional author whose primary job is to WRITE A BOOK could manage that much. for those that try, im sure its not too herculean a task, as you might say.

once again, if you read carefully, i said that jordan was diagnosed around the time he was putting out a book in three years, which you so gracefully clarified was KoD. he was actually diagnosed only a month or so after releasing the book.

heres a bit of information. people dont suddenly develop heart diseases. you have them for a while before they are diagnosed. they start to cause problems, which is why you go to the doctor, who tells you that somethings wrong. now i dont presume to know the process with which rj and harriet found out he had amyloidosis. but its not at all hard to imagine that he felt many of the symptoms prior to diagnosis. and what do you now, around that time, it took him longer to write KoD. call me crazy.

despite all the information against martins work ethic and focus, i might still be willing to cut him some slack if not for the fact that i not once heard him say that he was writing at a 2k word per day pace. nor did i hear him mention what kind of pace he wrote at. he is a great writer, no question. but if youve any experience writing, i think you can realize that he is a little on the lazy side.
You must unlearn what you have learned.
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A Dance With Dragons - 22/03/2011 11:43:01 PM 2472 Views
See, I disagree. - 23/03/2011 01:05:59 AM 1592 Views
Also, I think we all know GRRM has more interest than just writing - 23/03/2011 05:06:34 AM 1465 Views
I would agree with you, but... - 24/03/2011 06:59:14 AM 1385 Views
If that is true... - 24/03/2011 09:57:13 AM 1318 Views
... - 23/03/2011 01:17:57 AM 1464 Views
Yeah but, come on, 6 years? And 5 years for the book before that? *NM* - 23/03/2011 05:05:01 AM 669 Views
Yes that is longer than most... - 23/03/2011 08:31:57 PM 1368 Views
Many, many.. - 24/03/2011 09:58:28 AM 1510 Views
The way I see it ... - 23/03/2011 03:59:35 AM 1471 Views
If people are upset with him, don't buy the book. - 23/03/2011 07:52:02 AM 1352 Views
Re: If people are upset with him, don't buy the book. - 23/03/2011 01:22:09 PM 1275 Views
Do you guys literally have nothing else to read? - 24/03/2011 06:40:51 AM 1245 Views
do you realize how little time is spent on whining and bitching? - 24/03/2011 10:06:16 AM 1261 Views
Well, you're spending time on it right now. *NM* - 25/03/2011 03:35:10 AM 672 Views
Some is not necessarily a lot. Open a logic textbook. *NM* - 25/03/2011 12:18:38 PM 718 Views
Re: Do you guys literally have nothing else to read? - 24/03/2011 03:58:11 PM 1345 Views
Personally, I completely forgot about the series... - 25/03/2011 03:46:58 AM 1282 Views
Re: Personally, I completely forgot about the series... - 25/03/2011 12:22:07 PM 1313 Views
No, that's not his attitude. - 24/03/2011 11:53:55 PM 1263 Views
The reason some authors say such things is.. - 28/03/2011 09:33:01 AM 1331 Views
yeah - 24/03/2011 10:02:38 AM 1325 Views
Re: - 25/03/2011 03:55:58 AM 1284 Views
accidental double click >< *NM* - 24/03/2011 10:02:39 AM 708 Views
*complain* - 23/03/2011 10:19:33 PM 1390 Views
*sigh* - 24/03/2011 10:11:29 AM 1729 Views
Re: *sigh* - 24/03/2011 01:56:51 PM 1408 Views
Well - 24/03/2011 02:44:00 PM 1328 Views
Re: Well - 25/03/2011 12:17:08 AM 1344 Views
apparently you cant read... - 25/03/2011 12:37:51 AM 1385 Views
Seriously? You don't know how Jordan's illness manifested itself? - 25/03/2011 02:19:23 AM 1415 Views
I'm glad you mentioned LotR - 25/03/2011 03:21:46 AM 1307 Views
Can we please stop making baseless comparisons to Lord of the Rings? Thanks. - 25/03/2011 06:22:50 AM 1321 Views
And can we try to strive for accuracy in what we are saying? Thanks. - 25/03/2011 08:24:51 AM 1333 Views
He still went to work, bucko. - 25/03/2011 06:57:26 PM 1187 Views
Question - 25/03/2011 09:00:08 PM 1314 Views
You, uh, just started arguing my position. - 26/03/2011 10:55:19 AM 1164 Views
Are you seriously that naive? - 25/03/2011 01:07:39 PM 1469 Views
Re: Are you seriously that naive? - 25/03/2011 10:59:27 PM 1226 Views
Re: Well - 25/03/2011 05:08:25 AM 1487 Views
Re: Well - 25/03/2011 01:11:20 PM 1556 Views
Re: *complain* - 24/03/2011 04:01:39 PM 1248 Views
I think you're right, and I also think it doesn't matter - 24/03/2011 12:37:35 AM 1209 Views
i agree, however... - 24/03/2011 10:12:52 AM 1297 Views
I agree with some of that. - 24/03/2011 01:12:10 AM 1338 Views
I don't care at all after so long a wait, but I do love watching the fanboys scramble to defend him. *NM* - 24/03/2011 01:20:15 AM 744 Views
^^^ This ^^^ *NM* - 26/03/2011 11:32:40 AM 740 Views
He's lazy and selfish and has every right to be *NM* - 24/03/2011 02:18:14 AM 717 Views
Your complaints would find more resonance if he hadn't announced a publication date yet. - 24/03/2011 01:55:01 PM 1153 Views
I think you bring up a good point - 24/03/2011 03:35:34 PM 1244 Views
Re: A Dance With Dragons - 24/03/2011 02:06:48 PM 1346 Views
Re: A Dance With Dragons - 24/03/2011 03:08:27 PM 1270 Views
But Sanderson's book was a mess. *NM* - 24/03/2011 09:35:56 PM 653 Views
Was it really? Which one was this? *NM* - 25/03/2011 03:40:58 AM 732 Views
ToM. Still was better than what Jordan was writing, though. - 25/03/2011 06:21:49 AM 1076 Views
Interesting. - 27/03/2011 11:32:39 PM 1311 Views
I enjoyed them too! They were just a mess structurally. - 29/03/2011 01:54:57 AM 1286 Views
In some places, yeah. - 29/03/2011 04:17:38 AM 1775 Views
I thought it was pretty damn good, personally. *NM* - 25/03/2011 05:13:25 AM 757 Views
I enjoyed it a lot more than I enjoyed any of Jordan's recent books. - 25/03/2011 06:20:47 AM 1357 Views
I enjoyed it immensely as well, but im still torn - 25/03/2011 03:07:59 PM 1290 Views
I'm torn too. - 27/03/2011 11:34:35 PM 1467 Views
Re: A Dance With Dragons - 25/03/2011 05:19:01 AM 1386 Views
This thread is becoming vaguely ridiculous. - 25/03/2011 01:31:40 PM 1375 Views
These threads are always ridiculous. I'm both astounded & not at all surprised that there's another - 25/03/2011 06:39:34 PM 1251 Views
EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE! - 25/03/2011 08:28:10 PM 1204 Views
I love threads like these. *NM* - 26/03/2011 10:53:38 AM 541 Views
Are you familiar with Minecraft? - 25/03/2011 07:05:56 PM 1253 Views
Whoops. - 26/03/2011 09:25:28 PM 1222 Views
What is this I don't even. - 27/03/2011 08:03:59 AM 1099 Views
Jaysus, it's not like he's maliciously holding back the book on you - 25/03/2011 03:46:00 PM 1260 Views
Re: Jaysus, it's not like he's maliciously holding back the book on you - 25/03/2011 04:31:31 PM 1464 Views
Re: Your math up above - 25/03/2011 04:45:23 PM 1263 Views
If you redo it ... - 25/03/2011 04:57:29 PM 1265 Views
Re: Your math up above - 26/03/2011 02:43:03 PM 1428 Views
That was gentle ribbing, not ad hom. Calm down. - 26/03/2011 04:22:24 PM 1195 Views
I used a smiley and everything! - 26/03/2011 04:52:48 PM 1410 Views
That's a great line. - 26/03/2011 07:01:42 PM 1192 Views
Re: That was gentle ribbing, not ad hom. Calm down. - 26/03/2011 05:09:19 PM 1398 Views
When you see people like Nate, Tash, or Rebekah, you don't have to worry. - 26/03/2011 06:59:01 PM 1217 Views
I see that I need to work on my reputation. - 28/03/2011 05:49:30 PM 1307 Views
Perhaps it is the same as one does not speak ill of fairies or elves. - 28/03/2011 11:22:17 PM 1251 Views
YEAH YOU'RE A TERRIBLE ADMIN - 29/03/2011 01:58:41 AM 1223 Views
A very wise man once informed people that George R. R. Martin is not their bitch. - 26/03/2011 09:26:15 PM 1291 Views
How very true. *NM* - 26/03/2011 10:19:59 PM 667 Views

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