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Seriously? You don't know how Jordan's illness manifested itself? Werthead Send a noteboard - 25/03/2011 02:19:23 AM
i said that 5 years would be the highest conceivable amount of time that it would take someone to write an epic fantasy novel. not that 5 was acceptable but six wasnt. the paradox of the heap notwithstanding, this is a trivial point as it seems clear that when there are a multitude of authors who put out books at a yearly or biyearly pace. why should grrm be any different?


You still haven't answered the question. Why is 5 years the highest amount acceptable? Why not 9 or 4? What process led you to believe that 5 years is that maximum possible amount given the number of SF and Fantasy novels that have taken longer to come out?

heres a bit of information. people dont suddenly develop heart diseases. you have them for a while before they are diagnosed. they start to cause problems, which is why you go to the doctor, who tells you that somethings wrong. now i dont presume to know the process with which rj and harriet found out he had amyloidosis. but its not at all hard to imagine that he felt many of the symptoms prior to diagnosis. and what do you now, around that time, it took him longer to write KoD. call me crazy.


Well, we could engage in guesswork and supposition. Or we could, you know, actually check out what Robert Jordan himself said about it on his blog at the time:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/blog/4/entry-348-an-idle-comment-or-two/

Jordan felt somewhat ill on Memorial Day 2005 (which was after the manuscript of KoD had been submitted), followed by a recurrence whilst attending a showing of SPAMALOT a week later. He had it looked into and the diagnosis came after KoD had come out.

So Jordan's illness did not manifest any symptoms at all before KoD was completed and handed in.

KNIFE OF DREAMS took longer to write because Jordan took a break after CROSSROADS to write the NEW SPRING novel. And yes, he got slagged off for that massively at the time.

despite all the information against martins work ethic and focus, i might still be willing to cut him some slack if not for the fact that i not once heard him say that he was writing at a 2k word per day pace. nor did i hear him mention what kind of pace he wrote at. he is a great writer, no question. but if youve any experience writing, i think you can realize that he is a little on the lazy side.


That's because writing is not a mechanical process. Sit down, bash out 2,000 words a day, rinse and repeat until it's done. The only writer I know who comes close to doing that and is any good is Steven Erikson. Everyone else in that bracket - Salvatore, Feist, Anderson, Goodkind - sucks donkey ass.

You're also cherry-picking what points to respond to and ignoring the ones that torpedo your arguments. So I want to know how your argument stacks up against:

1) The specific, major writing, structural and timeline problems that were encountered during the writing of ADWD, some stored up and repeatedly put-off since Martin started writing the series twenty years ago.

2) The fact that ADWD is almost 450,000 words long in manuscript, half again the length of the previous book in the series, 70,000 words longer than any Wheel of Time or Malazan novel, and longer in word-count than LORD OF THE RINGS in its totality, which took twice as long to write.

3) That 2,000 words a day as an average presupposes that 50% of writers will work slower than that and 50% will work faster. And Martin has the misfortune to fall into the lower half of that bracket, along with many, many others.
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A Dance With Dragons - 22/03/2011 11:43:01 PM 2472 Views
See, I disagree. - 23/03/2011 01:05:59 AM 1593 Views
Also, I think we all know GRRM has more interest than just writing - 23/03/2011 05:06:34 AM 1465 Views
I would agree with you, but... - 24/03/2011 06:59:14 AM 1385 Views
If that is true... - 24/03/2011 09:57:13 AM 1318 Views
... - 23/03/2011 01:17:57 AM 1464 Views
Yeah but, come on, 6 years? And 5 years for the book before that? *NM* - 23/03/2011 05:05:01 AM 669 Views
Yes that is longer than most... - 23/03/2011 08:31:57 PM 1368 Views
Many, many.. - 24/03/2011 09:58:28 AM 1510 Views
The way I see it ... - 23/03/2011 03:59:35 AM 1471 Views
If people are upset with him, don't buy the book. - 23/03/2011 07:52:02 AM 1352 Views
Re: If people are upset with him, don't buy the book. - 23/03/2011 01:22:09 PM 1275 Views
Do you guys literally have nothing else to read? - 24/03/2011 06:40:51 AM 1245 Views
do you realize how little time is spent on whining and bitching? - 24/03/2011 10:06:16 AM 1261 Views
Well, you're spending time on it right now. *NM* - 25/03/2011 03:35:10 AM 672 Views
Some is not necessarily a lot. Open a logic textbook. *NM* - 25/03/2011 12:18:38 PM 718 Views
Re: Do you guys literally have nothing else to read? - 24/03/2011 03:58:11 PM 1345 Views
Personally, I completely forgot about the series... - 25/03/2011 03:46:58 AM 1283 Views
Re: Personally, I completely forgot about the series... - 25/03/2011 12:22:07 PM 1313 Views
No, that's not his attitude. - 24/03/2011 11:53:55 PM 1263 Views
The reason some authors say such things is.. - 28/03/2011 09:33:01 AM 1331 Views
yeah - 24/03/2011 10:02:38 AM 1325 Views
Re: - 25/03/2011 03:55:58 AM 1284 Views
accidental double click >< *NM* - 24/03/2011 10:02:39 AM 708 Views
*complain* - 23/03/2011 10:19:33 PM 1390 Views
*sigh* - 24/03/2011 10:11:29 AM 1729 Views
Re: *sigh* - 24/03/2011 01:56:51 PM 1408 Views
Well - 24/03/2011 02:44:00 PM 1328 Views
Re: Well - 25/03/2011 12:17:08 AM 1344 Views
apparently you cant read... - 25/03/2011 12:37:51 AM 1385 Views
Seriously? You don't know how Jordan's illness manifested itself? - 25/03/2011 02:19:23 AM 1416 Views
I'm glad you mentioned LotR - 25/03/2011 03:21:46 AM 1307 Views
Can we please stop making baseless comparisons to Lord of the Rings? Thanks. - 25/03/2011 06:22:50 AM 1321 Views
And can we try to strive for accuracy in what we are saying? Thanks. - 25/03/2011 08:24:51 AM 1333 Views
He still went to work, bucko. - 25/03/2011 06:57:26 PM 1187 Views
Question - 25/03/2011 09:00:08 PM 1314 Views
You, uh, just started arguing my position. - 26/03/2011 10:55:19 AM 1164 Views
Are you seriously that naive? - 25/03/2011 01:07:39 PM 1469 Views
Re: Are you seriously that naive? - 25/03/2011 10:59:27 PM 1227 Views
Re: Well - 25/03/2011 05:08:25 AM 1487 Views
Re: Well - 25/03/2011 01:11:20 PM 1556 Views
Re: *complain* - 24/03/2011 04:01:39 PM 1248 Views
I think you're right, and I also think it doesn't matter - 24/03/2011 12:37:35 AM 1209 Views
i agree, however... - 24/03/2011 10:12:52 AM 1297 Views
I agree with some of that. - 24/03/2011 01:12:10 AM 1338 Views
I don't care at all after so long a wait, but I do love watching the fanboys scramble to defend him. *NM* - 24/03/2011 01:20:15 AM 744 Views
^^^ This ^^^ *NM* - 26/03/2011 11:32:40 AM 740 Views
He's lazy and selfish and has every right to be *NM* - 24/03/2011 02:18:14 AM 717 Views
Your complaints would find more resonance if he hadn't announced a publication date yet. - 24/03/2011 01:55:01 PM 1153 Views
I think you bring up a good point - 24/03/2011 03:35:34 PM 1245 Views
Re: A Dance With Dragons - 24/03/2011 02:06:48 PM 1346 Views
Re: A Dance With Dragons - 24/03/2011 03:08:27 PM 1270 Views
But Sanderson's book was a mess. *NM* - 24/03/2011 09:35:56 PM 653 Views
Was it really? Which one was this? *NM* - 25/03/2011 03:40:58 AM 732 Views
ToM. Still was better than what Jordan was writing, though. - 25/03/2011 06:21:49 AM 1076 Views
Interesting. - 27/03/2011 11:32:39 PM 1311 Views
I enjoyed them too! They were just a mess structurally. - 29/03/2011 01:54:57 AM 1287 Views
In some places, yeah. - 29/03/2011 04:17:38 AM 1775 Views
I thought it was pretty damn good, personally. *NM* - 25/03/2011 05:13:25 AM 757 Views
I enjoyed it a lot more than I enjoyed any of Jordan's recent books. - 25/03/2011 06:20:47 AM 1358 Views
I enjoyed it immensely as well, but im still torn - 25/03/2011 03:07:59 PM 1290 Views
I'm torn too. - 27/03/2011 11:34:35 PM 1468 Views
Re: A Dance With Dragons - 25/03/2011 05:19:01 AM 1386 Views
This thread is becoming vaguely ridiculous. - 25/03/2011 01:31:40 PM 1375 Views
These threads are always ridiculous. I'm both astounded & not at all surprised that there's another - 25/03/2011 06:39:34 PM 1251 Views
EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE! - 25/03/2011 08:28:10 PM 1204 Views
I love threads like these. *NM* - 26/03/2011 10:53:38 AM 541 Views
Are you familiar with Minecraft? - 25/03/2011 07:05:56 PM 1254 Views
Whoops. - 26/03/2011 09:25:28 PM 1222 Views
What is this I don't even. - 27/03/2011 08:03:59 AM 1099 Views
Jaysus, it's not like he's maliciously holding back the book on you - 25/03/2011 03:46:00 PM 1260 Views
Re: Jaysus, it's not like he's maliciously holding back the book on you - 25/03/2011 04:31:31 PM 1464 Views
Re: Your math up above - 25/03/2011 04:45:23 PM 1263 Views
If you redo it ... - 25/03/2011 04:57:29 PM 1265 Views
Re: Your math up above - 26/03/2011 02:43:03 PM 1428 Views
That was gentle ribbing, not ad hom. Calm down. - 26/03/2011 04:22:24 PM 1195 Views
I used a smiley and everything! - 26/03/2011 04:52:48 PM 1411 Views
That's a great line. - 26/03/2011 07:01:42 PM 1192 Views
Re: That was gentle ribbing, not ad hom. Calm down. - 26/03/2011 05:09:19 PM 1398 Views
When you see people like Nate, Tash, or Rebekah, you don't have to worry. - 26/03/2011 06:59:01 PM 1217 Views
I see that I need to work on my reputation. - 28/03/2011 05:49:30 PM 1308 Views
Perhaps it is the same as one does not speak ill of fairies or elves. - 28/03/2011 11:22:17 PM 1251 Views
YEAH YOU'RE A TERRIBLE ADMIN - 29/03/2011 01:58:41 AM 1223 Views
A very wise man once informed people that George R. R. Martin is not their bitch. - 26/03/2011 09:26:15 PM 1291 Views
How very true. *NM* - 26/03/2011 10:19:59 PM 667 Views

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