I've read through the discussion threads on the board so far and had some of my questions answered and had some things pointed out to me that whooshed right over my head in my reading (so thank you for that!)
1. People feel bad for Theon? THEON? Really?
It's called the PoV trap. People believe in the perspective of the narrator characters, regardless of objective assessments. We never get the perspective of the kids he skinned, so we lean towards sympathizing with him. For another example, see below your nicompoopery regarding Jaime's self-serving hypocrisy.Touché
I think Jaime's interesting because he's almost the opposite...early in the book the reader is supposed to think he's horrible because of what other people think of him. I think killing Mad King Aerys was absolutely the right thing to do, and that seems to be what people hold against him. Except there was that whole throwing Bran off the tower thing. So. I have to concede your point. But I gather there are those who think Brienne did die and was brought back?
Then why bother having her say a word at the end of her last PoV. This is just more people inflating what happened in their own minds because they're magic sluts. Yes, I thought her hanging scene was written in such a way as to imply that she didn't actually die. Maybe it's just because I recognize Martin's style in those (like Arya's getting hit in the head by Sandor's axe).
I am disappointed not to have gotten more of that storyline (though I did like the Jaime progression in this book, and liked how neatly he managed to do his duty to his family/king without breaking his oath to not take up arms against the Starks or Tullys).
Seriously? To the extent that he did do it, it was merely a case of following the letter of the law and trampling the spirit into the dirt. Did you forget his threats to launch Edmure's newborn child from a trebuchet? And his accompanying scorn for those who attempt to bluff with such threats? He only kept his oath because Edmure is a wimp who's as useless as the rest of the Tullys (except Brynden, who of course is the only one who refuses to breed more idiot Tullys into the world). Jaime's assertion that he has kept his oath is as ridiculous as his other lies. And even to the extent that he kept his oath, as I said, it was strictly the letter of the law. I am pretty sure that the Tullys undoubtedly consider "turning their ancestral family home over to the scions of their two worst enemy houses" to be worse than fighting against them. I didn't forget his threats, but I don't think he actually would have done it. I think Jaime-at-the-beginning-of-the-books would have, but I don't think Jaime-now would. That's the difference between him and Theon in my mind. Jaime has grown and changed, Theon has merely suffered. I can't even really give him credit for saving Jeyne, because he was basically forced to.
And let's not forget the myriad other crimes blackening his name, even if he has managed to avoid being as bad as he could in this one particular case. Even by his own assessments, Jaime has been working to dispossess men he deems worthy of respect, in favor of their more dishonorable enemies. He has nothing by contempt for his own uncle, especially compared to Brynden Tully, and the same with Jonos Bracken and Tytos Blackwood, and in both cases, he deprives the one he knows to be good of lands and incomes and takes his kinsmen prisoners, in favor of the scumbag who's on his side.
And being Cersei's twin, he's incapable of the self-reflection necessary to think about what it says about his side and the cause he supports that he's allied to the grasping turncoats and dispossessing the honorable men.
We are seeing Jaime and Cersei progress very differently though. I think he's perhaps becoming capable of that level of self-reflection.
4. Do you think Stannis is dead? I'm going with no, since it seems like when we find out about 'offscreen' deaths like that they tend not to have happened. Does Ramsay actually have Mance? It seems horrible to me that we'd have gone through the Mance-isn't-really-dead switcheroo only to have that happen, and it is possible that one or more of his girls was captured and Ramsay knows he was there that way. I'm really leaning towards taking that letter to Jon as a bunch of angry rambling.
He probably has Mance Rayder, which is how he learned enough of the details to give his letter authenticity. You're probably right about Stannis and the rest. Possible.
Edit to add:
6. Are we ever going to find out what happened to Benjen?
Coldhands. Bloodraven seems to have a thing for Starks.
Indeed. I think I need to read the novellas to get more of the backstory here.
If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.
"The trophy problem has become extreme."
"The trophy problem has become extreme."
Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course.
- 17/08/2011 04:48:04 PM
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Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course.
- 18/08/2011 12:46:33 AM
1146 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course.
- 18/08/2011 01:58:17 AM
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Bran didn't recognize him because his face is always covered
- 18/08/2011 04:28:55 AM
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If his face is always covered, how can you say you know who he is?
- 18/08/2011 12:14:18 PM
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I don't think anyone's saying they know who he is.
- 18/08/2011 02:42:32 PM
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The thing is we do not know how long you can be a wight
- 18/08/2011 03:08:33 PM
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Given that Martin doesn't seem to introduce characters like that, someone we know is more likely
- 18/08/2011 09:36:50 PM
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And how developed was the Three Eyed Crow
- 19/08/2011 04:27:32 AM
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But the point is, they were introduced at least, and not brought in from left field.
- 19/08/2011 11:36:41 AM
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Also, telling your 10-year-old nephew that you're a monster now must be rough.
- 18/08/2011 09:39:49 PM
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Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course.
- 18/08/2011 01:22:05 AM
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Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course.
- 18/08/2011 04:41:10 AM
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could you elaborate?
- 19/08/2011 03:16:59 AM
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Re: could you elaborate?
- 20/08/2011 01:37:43 AM
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Assuming the Quentyn, Dothraki sea, and Meereen pyramid parts are true...
- 25/08/2011 07:33:10 PM
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Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course.
- 18/08/2011 06:28:03 AM
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LOL
- 18/08/2011 02:14:59 PM
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Re: LOL
- 19/08/2011 05:29:51 AM
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Huge agree and disagree
- 19/08/2011 02:06:24 PM
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Re: Huge agree and disagree
- 22/08/2011 05:58:13 AM
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Remember she also had her faced chewed off
- 22/08/2011 02:25:21 PM
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