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Re: Ah. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 25/08/2011 01:21:05 AM



Touché :D I think Jaime's interesting because he's almost the opposite...early in the book the reader is supposed to think he's horrible because of what other people think of him. I think killing Mad King Aerys was absolutely the right thing to do, and that seems to be what people hold against him. Except there was that whole throwing Bran off the tower thing. So. I have to concede your point.
There were other options. One of the finest warriors on the continent and he was incapable of restraining a scrawny old mad man? Besides, what of his other duties such as protecting the rightful successor, the infant Aegon? The point is not that killing Aerys was a good or bad thing, but that Jaime violated his oath in doing so.



Yes, I thought her hanging scene was written in such a way as to imply that she didn't actually die. Maybe it's just because I recognize Martin's style in those (like Arya's getting hit in the head by Sandor's axe).
Or Theon blacking out as Ramsay burns Winterfell, or Theon jumping from the wall, or Asha about to get nailed in the flight from Deepwood Motte, or Tyrion passing out at the battle of the Blackwater, or Arya getting menaced by Yoren's knife, or, well, you get the jist, I'm sure.



I didn't forget his threats, but I don't think he actually would have done it.
I could accept that defense in any book BUT the one where he heaps such scorn on the Frey's for their inept handling of Edmure as a hostage, and empty threats to hang him.
I think Jaime-at-the-beginning-of-the-books would have, but I don't think Jaime-now would. That's the difference between him and Theon in my mind. Jaime has grown and changed, Theon has merely suffered. I can't even really give him credit for saving Jeyne, because he was basically forced to.
Yeah. At that point, he was a whipped dog, who had simply chosen Mance & his women to replace Ramsay. Though he did seem to have some concern and care for Jeyne. On the other hand there are subtle things such as his recollection of his feigned escape with Kyra, where he tried to abandon her to save himself. He's good at expressing concern and good intentions, and more self-serving when it comes to follow-through.


We are seeing Jaime and Cersei progress very differently though. I think he's perhaps becoming capable of that level of self-reflection.
Here's hoping. But he isn't redeemed until he atones. Honestly, the best fate I could see in store for him is taking the black once everything has shaken out.



Indeed. I think I need to read the novellas to get more of the backstory here.
There isn't any, really. He is often mentioned, and mysterious or supernatural powers are ascribed to him by commoners and low-ranking nobles, but in much the same manner as they are ascribed to Varys. So he may have wielded magical powers during his days in service to his Targaryen brother and nephew, or he may simply have been a highly capable master of covert ops who preferred to let people believe in scrying or seeing through birds' eyes instead of actually investigating for possible spies. As far as a connection to the Starks, they are never referenced in the novellas, except a mention in tMK that Lord Stark is gathering forces to fight off Dagon Greyjoy. I think that any such affection is more likely due to them being more readily observed by him in his greenseer incarnation, given the significance of the godswood in their lives, as opposed to the rest of the nobles.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 17/08/2011 04:48:04 PM 2048 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 12:46:33 AM 1572 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 01:58:17 AM 1402 Views
Bran didn't recognize him because his face is always covered - 18/08/2011 04:28:55 AM 1403 Views
If his face is always covered, how can you say you know who he is? - 18/08/2011 12:14:18 PM 1321 Views
I don't think anyone's saying they know who he is. - 18/08/2011 02:42:32 PM 1345 Views
The thing is we do not know how long you can be a wight - 18/08/2011 03:08:33 PM 1422 Views
Given that Martin doesn't seem to introduce characters like that, someone we know is more likely - 18/08/2011 09:36:50 PM 1293 Views
And how developed was the Three Eyed Crow - 19/08/2011 04:27:32 AM 1448 Views
But the point is, they were introduced at least, and not brought in from left field. - 19/08/2011 11:36:41 AM 1382 Views
Well, it was sort of foreshadowed (in hindsight). - 19/08/2011 01:29:48 PM 1430 Views
That's true. - 18/08/2011 02:10:19 PM 1330 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 01:22:05 AM 1411 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 02:10:30 AM 1497 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 12:09:13 PM 1384 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 04:41:10 AM 1405 Views
You know, that's a really good point. - 18/08/2011 02:07:50 PM 1337 Views
Another reason Theon is sympathetic - 18/08/2011 03:13:12 PM 1660 Views
could you elaborate? - 19/08/2011 03:16:59 AM 1460 Views
Re: could you elaborate? - 20/08/2011 01:37:43 AM 1499 Views
Ok, I see part of that - 21/08/2011 01:10:47 AM 1552 Views
Do you mean - 22/08/2011 06:36:44 PM 1479 Views
Assuming the Quentyn, Dothraki sea, and Meereen pyramid parts are true... - 25/08/2011 07:33:10 PM 1423 Views
That's the other problem I have - 25/08/2011 08:12:01 PM 1840 Views
I would hope GRRM knows better than that - 26/08/2011 12:49:42 AM 1375 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 06:28:03 AM 1390 Views
LOL - 18/08/2011 02:14:59 PM 1375 Views
Re: LOL - 19/08/2011 05:29:51 AM 1510 Views
Huge agree and disagree - 19/08/2011 02:06:24 PM 1654 Views
Re: Huge agree and disagree - 22/08/2011 05:58:13 AM 1363 Views
Remember she also had her faced chewed off - 22/08/2011 02:25:21 PM 1426 Views
Re: Remember she also had her faced chewed off - 23/08/2011 05:14:04 AM 1287 Views
I imagine - 23/08/2011 02:16:12 PM 1412 Views
Re: I imagine - 24/08/2011 06:41:39 AM 1430 Views
Yes. - 22/08/2011 06:39:43 PM 1315 Views
Re: Yes. - 23/08/2011 05:42:04 AM 1327 Views
Re: Yes. - 23/08/2011 02:19:55 PM 1494 Views
Re: Yes. - 24/08/2011 07:09:11 AM 1568 Views
Re: Questions I have after finishing ADwD. Spoilers of course. - 18/08/2011 09:33:57 PM 1557 Views
Ah. - 22/08/2011 06:27:10 PM 1453 Views
Re: Ah. - 25/08/2011 01:21:05 AM 1515 Views

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