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Plato is exciting, brutal and scandalous? Legolas Send a noteboard - 12/12/2011 09:59:13 PM
I'm thinking mostly of the Illiad, the Odyssey, and most of the Greek tragedies. But even Plato, Lysias, and Suetonius are interesting, and for all the right reasons. They're exciting, brutal, and scandalous.

But judging by what I've read of the classics, yes, some of them are most definitely interesting to today's youths. Jean Anouilh wrote a great adaptation of Sophocles' Antigone - but even the original doesn't take all that much effort to get into even for a teenager, just a little bit of goodwill. Not all of the other plays are as accessible, but some are. The mythology certainly is.

And then there's Martial and Catullus, who between them I think will continue to blow every generation of teenagers' minds, because they never realized how a civilization so ancient and different could yet be so similar in its vulgarities and its romance. Nihil novi sub sole, and all that.
Part of the problem I've found first hand is the translation. It's too florid, too posh and British, to really hit people. I think Attic Greek could lend itself very well to an Americanized translation with American colloquialism, while losing very little. Also, verse can be difficult, and that is one major hurdle which they really could teach. I'd be ok with a prose rendition of the Illiad, but fuck it, who knows.

Certainly makes sense to me.
The other problem, which I think is the more significant one, is that schools and parents alike would refuse to actually teach material this interesting. That's the crux of the problem. There's no shortage of literature that is exciting and well-written, but the way it is taught, due to layers and layers of puritanism and PC Bullshit, strip it of being interesting. The result is Huckleberry Finn without "nigger". There's no fucking way anyone could seriously teach The Bacchae, for instance.

Yeah, I don't think there's any American high school that would dare to read "Pedicabo vos et irrumabo". My HS teacher of Greek and Latin didn't shy away from that stuff, read some of Carlos Drummond de Andrade's erotic poetry to us (and a classic documentary about the explicit sexual fantasies of Brazilian octogenarians - talk about blowing students' minds), but that's hardly the norm here, and I dare say America is still more puritan.

Of course, there's plenty of literature that could pass the censor's judging eye and still be interesting to teenagers.
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Aren't the Tolkien comparisons getting a little...old? Dark Knight - 09/12/2011 09:51:39 PM 2762 Views
The comparison bothers me, but not because Tolkien isn't relevant. lord-of-shadow - 09/12/2011 10:05:22 PM 1636 Views
I agree with this. Nate - 09/12/2011 10:21:34 PM 1659 Views
Re: I agree with this. DomA - 10/12/2011 07:09:33 PM 1608 Views
Exactly *NM* ironclad - 12/12/2011 12:09:19 PM 804 Views
Only when shit works are being compared to him Larry - 09/12/2011 10:22:26 PM 1538 Views
Larry, Macharius - 10/12/2011 01:13:18 AM 1554 Views
Snide dismissal that will be passed off as for his own entertainment. Ghavrel - 10/12/2011 04:55:43 AM 1457 Views
We get a lot of that around here. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 10/12/2011 05:18:01 AM 599 Views
makes me wonder... LadyLorraine - 10/12/2011 04:37:33 PM 1442 Views
Re: makes me wonder... James - 11/12/2011 03:03:15 AM 1419 Views
Well-deserved condescension. Tom - 11/12/2011 03:54:27 AM 1584 Views
You're sure about that? A Deathwatch Guard - 11/12/2011 04:20:26 AM 1812 Views
Re: You're sure about that? James - 11/12/2011 05:25:08 AM 1539 Views
Re: You're sure about that? A Deathwatch Guard - 11/12/2011 06:03:02 AM 1405 Views
i think you shouldn't judge a whole world's school programs on your school LadyLorraine - 11/12/2011 06:42:30 AM 1445 Views
Yeah, I'm limited in my knowledge, lol A Deathwatch Guard - 11/12/2011 08:03:26 AM 1461 Views
My school was...not great. James - 11/12/2011 04:02:36 PM 1488 Views
I'm 24. James - 11/12/2011 03:49:06 PM 1410 Views
If you're arguing that children should be able to read genre fiction, fine. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:52:27 PM 1330 Views
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of genre being read Larry - 11/12/2011 09:36:16 PM 1577 Views
How often do you hear the challenging writers mentioned at this site? Tom - 12/12/2011 02:03:05 PM 1307 Views
Only when you, me, and a couple others write reviews Larry - 12/12/2011 04:21:14 PM 1697 Views
Oh, it was the same as it always is Tom - 12/12/2011 05:23:56 PM 1417 Views
True Larry - 12/12/2011 06:29:10 PM 1477 Views
One note nossy - 13/12/2011 12:17:48 AM 1504 Views
Perhaps Larry - 13/12/2011 12:49:34 AM 1435 Views
*Sighs* Such is the plight of those shining few intelects... Narg - 23/12/2011 01:15:47 AM 1492 Views
Much of the actual "Classics", that is, Greek and Latin originals, kids would eat up. Dan - 12/12/2011 03:13:03 AM 1316 Views
Try teaching Apuleius in schools... *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 04:12:49 AM 723 Views
Plato is exciting, brutal and scandalous? Legolas - 12/12/2011 09:59:13 PM 1378 Views
You're upfront and honest about it; he isn't. The difference matters to me. *NM* Ghavrel - 11/12/2011 05:18:42 AM 770 Views
Uhh...uh... Larry - 11/12/2011 05:34:23 AM 1414 Views
this is a bit off topic, but out of curiousity... LadyLorraine - 11/12/2011 06:28:35 AM 1529 Views
I've discussed this dozens of times at this site. Perhaps you've missed all of the posts. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:57:44 PM 1469 Views
mk I'll go look. I probably did miss it (or at least don't remember it!) LadyLorraine - 11/12/2011 09:08:02 PM 1433 Views
I have a successful career that was inspired by the video games I played as a child. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 11/12/2011 05:52:21 PM 804 Views
Now let's get all the people who just pissed their lives away with video games and see the %. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:58:42 PM 1565 Views
The majority of players neither waste their lives nor make a career out of it. lord-of-shadow - 11/12/2011 11:29:29 PM 1461 Views
Yeah, sorry, I don't think you could say that with a straight face in real life. *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 04:13:52 AM 733 Views
Then you have a closed mind on the subject. Ironic, considering your stance on edification. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 12/12/2011 05:47:50 AM 673 Views
No, just with respect to you. *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 02:00:15 PM 722 Views
Tom, you pulled the "Say that to my face!" line. You lost the right to talk about respect. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 12/12/2011 03:20:15 PM 773 Views
Once again, I really don't care what you think. *NM* Tom - 12/12/2011 03:37:40 PM 729 Views
Did I imply that you did? My apologies. I'd hate to insinuate that you'd stoop that low. *NM* lord-of-shadow - 12/12/2011 04:13:25 PM 692 Views
As well read as you seem to be, you think you'd be smart enough... MonCul - 11/12/2011 06:20:06 PM 1410 Views
I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here. Tom - 11/12/2011 08:44:58 PM 1330 Views
Re: I thought I have made it clear that I don't care if people don't like me here. Macharius - 12/12/2011 04:04:37 PM 1380 Views
That statement has just confused me. Tom - 12/12/2011 04:06:53 PM 1345 Views
Re: That statement has just confused me. Macharius - 12/12/2011 04:14:27 PM 1352 Views
I never learned Hittite. I had a book on pre-order for a long time but never ended up getting it. Tom - 12/12/2011 05:41:03 PM 1300 Views
What you have made clear, I think, is the fact that you deal in generalizations and stereotypes. MonCul - 12/12/2011 10:12:12 PM 1453 Views
There's an unintentional irony in what you say, alas Larry - 13/12/2011 12:44:26 AM 1359 Views
Tom, Dick, or Larry...you may use your true first name, but you're still an anonymous entity to most MonCul - 13/12/2011 04:49:35 AM 1577 Views
With such comeback skills, you must have ruled the playgrounds as a kid, no? Larry - 13/12/2011 05:21:42 AM 1583 Views
I thought it was a pretty good comeback. MonCul - 13/12/2011 12:37:15 PM 1531 Views
Think again, Skippy Larry - 13/12/2011 01:34:41 PM 1396 Views
There are no special snowflakes, are there? Larry - 11/12/2011 09:39:21 PM 1334 Views
There are many way of widening one's horizons and broadening one's mind. Legolas - 11/12/2011 10:08:24 PM 1090 Views
I said as much in my comment Larry - 11/12/2011 10:20:03 PM 1365 Views
What I don't like- rebelaessedai - 12/12/2011 04:28:55 AM 1447 Views
Why don't you name something, then? Tom - 12/12/2011 04:40:29 AM 1390 Views
Sure. rebelaessedai - 13/12/2011 07:30:56 AM 1225 Views
Mentioning Ender's Game pretty much shot your argument in the foot. Tom - 13/12/2011 02:02:59 PM 1339 Views
You dismiss the entire video game medium because many games lack value. lord-of-shadow - 13/12/2011 03:59:11 PM 1474 Views
You're like the McDonald's paid advocate trying to say Big Macs are actually healthy. Tom - 13/12/2011 05:46:37 PM 1286 Views
McDonalds food is inherently unhealthy. lord-of-shadow - 13/12/2011 06:02:18 PM 1422 Views
For the sake of argument ... Nate - 13/12/2011 04:09:51 PM 1328 Views
Stephenson is not literature, that's for damn sure. Tom - 13/12/2011 05:49:24 PM 1278 Views
Thank you, The Voice of Lews Therin. *NM* Vivien - 16/12/2011 05:14:42 AM 788 Views
I'll leave it up to others to define as they wish against their self-conceptions of me Larry - 10/12/2011 10:52:54 AM 1436 Views
that's alright. I really have no desire to stroke your twit-ego. *NM* LadyLorraine - 10/12/2011 04:36:56 PM 578 Views
Considering the firestorm I appear to have touched off, that may be best. Macharius - 12/12/2011 12:57:49 PM 1435 Views
I know, John Larry - 12/12/2011 04:27:04 PM 1324 Views
Re: I know, John Macharius - 12/12/2011 05:06:26 PM 1377 Views
As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% Larry - 12/12/2011 06:33:52 PM 1319 Views
Re: As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% Macharius - 12/12/2011 07:13:37 PM 1399 Views
Same guy Larry - 12/12/2011 07:26:13 PM 1426 Views
Ha! Excellent point. *NM* Tom - 11/12/2011 03:44:52 AM 709 Views
Blurbs are not generally very original in their comparisons - would kind of defeat their purpose. Legolas - 09/12/2011 10:42:17 PM 1418 Views
I have to agree. ? - 09/12/2011 10:54:06 PM 1441 Views
They're there for marketing A Deathwatch Guard - 10/12/2011 12:20:17 AM 1408 Views
Most of those comparisons are like that anyway DomA - 10/12/2011 05:32:45 PM 1539 Views
Maybe if so much of the genre weren't crap derivative works it wouldn't be so common. *NM* Tom - 11/12/2011 03:44:24 AM 701 Views
To be fair, a lot of it isn't. rebelaessedai - 11/12/2011 04:06:07 AM 1357 Views
I suspect that if it really isn't derivative it's not being compared to Tolkien in the first place. Tom - 11/12/2011 04:18:57 AM 1311 Views
That's true. rebelaessedai - 11/12/2011 11:08:01 AM 1303 Views
But see, that's where things start to get referred back to Tolkien. Tom - 12/12/2011 04:30:12 AM 1453 Views
Maybe they mean something else by using his name. Cannoli - 11/12/2011 03:50:15 AM 1373 Views
When they don't work, yes. nossy - 11/12/2011 03:18:44 PM 1371 Views
The Tolkien fanaticism gets old. And yes, for me it is unreadable. everynametaken - 11/12/2011 11:37:53 PM 1365 Views
No, because the movies are very contemporary and relevant, thus he will remain so for quite a while. Dan - 12/12/2011 03:14:53 AM 1423 Views
Disagree all you want, but LotR is still the touchstone when it comes to works of fantasy. Vodalus - 12/12/2011 03:48:20 AM 1333 Views
Yes *NM* Hieshyn - 22/12/2011 07:08:38 PM 824 Views
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