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For the sake of argument ... Nate Send a noteboard - 13/12/2011 04:09:51 PM
... I would offer Neal Stephenson as an example of a fantasy/sci-fi writer who broadens your horizons. However, he's not writing worlds with, as you put it, dragons and elves and fairies. His fantastic elements tend to be a fair bit lighter than that, which I think might be something you talked about earlier. I haven't been reading every post. For the record I think that you are right that people could (and perhaps should) be broadening their horizons more, but I also think that many (not all) of the books you and Larry promote as mind-broadening are actually dull as dirt. That's probably just a matter of personal taste.

But back to Neal Stephenson. You'll typically find his books in the fantasy and sci-fi sections because of the light fantastic elements within them, but as he tells stories he teaches about topics such as history, economics, cryptography, mathematics, and dozens of smaller topics that catch his interest. His books are full of well-written asides packed with factual information. You can learn quite a bit from them if you want to.

For the sake of continuing argument, there are several fantasy authors/books that can teach you a little and give you a greater interest in particular topics. Neil Gaiman's books are full of real-world mythology, for example, and his Sandman books are also sprinkled with factual history lessons.

Fantasy and sci-fi writers can also be effective social commentators, which is another way they can broaden the mind. I suspect that science fiction has more of this, but I don't read a lot of it so I can't say for certain how good it is. Matthew Stover's Acts of Caine books are a blend of fantasy and science fiction that have at their core a social commentary on class systems and the culture of entertainment. China Mieville's fantasy novels also contain quite a bit of relevant social commentary.

However (again, didn't read all the other posts) I suspect you're talking more about standard, run-of-the-mill fantasy, where of course you're correct that there is not a lot of practical relevance to the real world. That doesn't mean that there can't be emotional relevance, because every fantasy world, no matter how run-of-the-mill, also contains things such as personal interaction, relationships, basic social structures, etc., that do indeed happen in our world as well, and can be of use to people. It's not mind-broadening in the typical sense, but it's not worthless either. Well, it's not worthless in most books. Some of them are just so bad that even this stuff is worthless.

But I would also argue that the split in the speculative fiction genre between worthwhile/intellectually stimulating books and fluff books also exists in most other genres. The books written decades or centuries ago that became classics did so because they were of the first category, but there were thousands of books written, published, purchased, and enjoyed by people that were fluff. It's not a problem that's endemic to fantasy. There's fluff everywhere. There's fluff down every aisle of every bookstore.

If there's a case to be made against fantasy/sci-fi, I think it's safer to say that it has a higher fluff to non-fluff ratio partially because it appeals to young peoplea as an entry into literature and partially because it's a younger genre in general. The longer it percolates in society, slowly more people with intellectual ideas will write stories in it, and the more non-fluff we will get. But there will always be fluff, just as there will always be a Dean Koontz and a Danielle Steele in the "real world" novels.
Warder to starry_nite

Chapterfish — Nate's Writing Blog
http://chapterfish.wordpress.com
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Aren't the Tolkien comparisons getting a little...old? - 09/12/2011 09:51:39 PM 3229 Views
The comparison bothers me, but not because Tolkien isn't relevant. - 09/12/2011 10:05:22 PM 2063 Views
I agree with this. - 09/12/2011 10:21:34 PM 2130 Views
Re: I agree with this. - 10/12/2011 07:09:33 PM 2069 Views
Exactly *NM* - 12/12/2011 12:09:19 PM 1090 Views
Only when shit works are being compared to him - 09/12/2011 10:22:26 PM 2016 Views
Larry, - 10/12/2011 01:13:18 AM 2013 Views
Snide dismissal that will be passed off as for his own entertainment. - 10/12/2011 04:55:43 AM 1891 Views
We get a lot of that around here. *NM* - 10/12/2011 05:18:01 AM 850 Views
makes me wonder... - 10/12/2011 04:37:33 PM 1906 Views
Re: makes me wonder... - 11/12/2011 03:03:15 AM 1862 Views
Well-deserved condescension. - 11/12/2011 03:54:27 AM 2054 Views
You're sure about that? - 11/12/2011 04:20:26 AM 2305 Views
Re: You're sure about that? - 11/12/2011 05:25:08 AM 1967 Views
Re: You're sure about that? - 11/12/2011 06:03:02 AM 1898 Views
i think you shouldn't judge a whole world's school programs on your school - 11/12/2011 06:42:30 AM 1906 Views
Yeah, I'm limited in my knowledge, lol - 11/12/2011 08:03:26 AM 1926 Views
My school was...not great. - 11/12/2011 04:02:36 PM 1931 Views
I'm 24. - 11/12/2011 03:49:06 PM 1877 Views
If you're arguing that children should be able to read genre fiction, fine. - 11/12/2011 08:52:27 PM 1769 Views
Well, I suppose it depends on the type of genre being read - 11/12/2011 09:36:16 PM 2014 Views
How often do you hear the challenging writers mentioned at this site? - 12/12/2011 02:03:05 PM 1772 Views
Only when you, me, and a couple others write reviews - 12/12/2011 04:21:14 PM 2169 Views
Oh, it was the same as it always is - 12/12/2011 05:23:56 PM 1830 Views
True - 12/12/2011 06:29:10 PM 1957 Views
One note - 13/12/2011 12:17:48 AM 1956 Views
Perhaps - 13/12/2011 12:49:34 AM 1911 Views
*Sighs* Such is the plight of those shining few intelects... - 23/12/2011 01:15:47 AM 1954 Views
Much of the actual "Classics", that is, Greek and Latin originals, kids would eat up. - 12/12/2011 03:13:03 AM 1791 Views
Try teaching Apuleius in schools... *NM* - 12/12/2011 04:12:49 AM 963 Views
Plato is exciting, brutal and scandalous? - 12/12/2011 09:59:13 PM 1864 Views
You're upfront and honest about it; he isn't. The difference matters to me. *NM* - 11/12/2011 05:18:42 AM 1021 Views
Uhh...uh... - 11/12/2011 05:34:23 AM 1867 Views
this is a bit off topic, but out of curiousity... - 11/12/2011 06:28:35 AM 1995 Views
There are no special snowflakes, are there? - 11/12/2011 09:39:21 PM 1793 Views
There are many way of widening one's horizons and broadening one's mind. - 11/12/2011 10:08:24 PM 1551 Views
I said as much in my comment - 11/12/2011 10:20:03 PM 1770 Views
What I don't like- - 12/12/2011 04:28:55 AM 1914 Views
Why don't you name something, then? - 12/12/2011 04:40:29 AM 1854 Views
Sure. - 13/12/2011 07:30:56 AM 1692 Views
Mentioning Ender's Game pretty much shot your argument in the foot. - 13/12/2011 02:02:59 PM 1801 Views
You dismiss the entire video game medium because many games lack value. - 13/12/2011 03:59:11 PM 1931 Views
You're like the McDonald's paid advocate trying to say Big Macs are actually healthy. - 13/12/2011 05:46:37 PM 1701 Views
McDonalds food is inherently unhealthy. - 13/12/2011 06:02:18 PM 1928 Views
For the sake of argument ... - 13/12/2011 04:09:51 PM 1878 Views
Stephenson is not literature, that's for damn sure. - 13/12/2011 05:49:24 PM 1729 Views
Thank you, The Voice of Lews Therin. *NM* - 16/12/2011 05:14:42 AM 1045 Views
I'll leave it up to others to define as they wish against their self-conceptions of me - 10/12/2011 10:52:54 AM 1935 Views
that's alright. I really have no desire to stroke your twit-ego. *NM* - 10/12/2011 04:36:56 PM 815 Views
Considering the firestorm I appear to have touched off, that may be best. - 12/12/2011 12:57:49 PM 1851 Views
I know, John - 12/12/2011 04:27:04 PM 1763 Views
Re: I know, John - 12/12/2011 05:06:26 PM 1894 Views
As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% - 12/12/2011 06:33:52 PM 1764 Views
Re: As I've said in the past, I'd be scared if anyone agreed with me anywhere approaching 100% - 12/12/2011 07:13:37 PM 1835 Views
Same guy - 12/12/2011 07:26:13 PM 1886 Views
Ha! Excellent point. *NM* - 11/12/2011 03:44:52 AM 961 Views
I have to agree. - 09/12/2011 10:54:06 PM 1862 Views
They're there for marketing - 10/12/2011 12:20:17 AM 1874 Views
Most of those comparisons are like that anyway - 10/12/2011 05:32:45 PM 2052 Views
Maybe if so much of the genre weren't crap derivative works it wouldn't be so common. *NM* - 11/12/2011 03:44:24 AM 969 Views
To be fair, a lot of it isn't. - 11/12/2011 04:06:07 AM 1846 Views
I suspect that if it really isn't derivative it's not being compared to Tolkien in the first place. - 11/12/2011 04:18:57 AM 1764 Views
That's true. - 11/12/2011 11:08:01 AM 1738 Views
Maybe they mean something else by using his name. - 11/12/2011 03:50:15 AM 1896 Views
When they don't work, yes. - 11/12/2011 03:18:44 PM 1854 Views
The Tolkien fanaticism gets old. And yes, for me it is unreadable. - 11/12/2011 11:37:53 PM 1789 Views
Yes *NM* - 22/12/2011 07:08:38 PM 1087 Views

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