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Re: Frank Herbert, Dune HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM
Interesting but flawed reasoning. I have read all of the Dune books, including the ones that were written/completed by his son. Apparently I ahve also read the ones you have much more ofter. Arakis is one of the major characters of the first book (in later books you discover that the planet was not the character instead it is the worms), but ecology and enrinmental activism is not one of the major themes. It is at best a side effect. The major themes of Dune are all religious, moral, and mercantile.

Additionally, there is no commentary about homosexuallity in the novel. BH is simply, intentionally, displayed as possessing the most offensive and disgusting traits imaginable. You would be just as accurate to attempt to fabricate some sort of parrallel between obese people and sexual deviancy in the novel.

You are making the error that entirely too many reviewers have and will do. Attempting to find themes in prose that do not exist because the author did not write them. Too many reviewer tripple-think into wonderful themes and messages by grabbing various images and actions and weaving them into a coherant "message" that simply does not exist, because the author was not writing them.

There is no emviromental activism as we know it today in the novels, there is only an effort to convert a natural desert into airiable land. There is no statement on homosexuallity, there is simply an incredibly evil sadistic individual who partakes in every manner of diviant behavior imaginable, becasue he can.

If you want to investigate the thems, investigate the ones the authro wrote about: Slavery, Religion, Orthodoxy (morallity, i.e "The Greater Good";), Polotics (money=power, rule by fear vs loyalty). There is plenty to discuss, without creating new themes form whole cloth to further ones oown adgendas and biases. Alas, entirely too many reviewers and critics desire this, instead of investigating and discussing wghat teh auther actually intends.

Though intelectually flawed, your piece is well written and supported by the passages you selected, kudos.
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Frank Herbert, Dune Chronicles (series reviews within) - 16/04/2010 04:11:40 AM 2143 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 16/04/2010 06:09:49 PM 1246 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 12:08:06 AM 1464 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 02:33:38 PM 1375 Views
I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 12:13:14 AM 1370 Views
Re: I was using a fairly precise term when I said "ecological" - 18/04/2010 03:34:33 AM 1422 Views
Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 18/04/2010 05:18:07 AM 1224 Views
Re: Please read linked interview...as I call bullshit. Also, why are your walls white? - 19/04/2010 06:15:26 PM 1287 Views
That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 12:12:56 AM 1146 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 21/04/2010 06:33:14 PM 1098 Views
Re: That was most of my issue. - 29/04/2010 11:38:26 PM 1082 Views
Just because something plays a dominate role doesn't make it a theme - 21/04/2010 02:09:42 PM 1238 Views
A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 21/04/2010 11:21:38 PM 1189 Views
Re: A theme is merely a dominant strain in a story; there can be more than one theme present - 22/04/2010 04:58:01 AM 1126 Views
Good points - 22/04/2010 09:19:45 PM 1200 Views
Re: Good points - 22/04/2010 10:55:21 PM 1140 Views
when you call it human ecology I come much closer to agreeing - 22/04/2010 02:16:58 PM 1157 Views
Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 19/04/2010 07:52:27 PM 1253 Views
Re: Not really sure how Larry's definition is archaic. - 20/04/2010 07:04:40 PM 1120 Views
You're not using "archaic" correctly - 20/04/2010 10:07:31 PM 1101 Views
Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 01:46:50 AM 1019 Views
doesn't that regulate the point down to interesting trivia? - 21/04/2010 02:36:38 PM 1159 Views
Re: Your patronizing manner aside, that's not "archaic" at all. - 21/04/2010 06:23:24 PM 1251 Views
Funny the things people focus on - 21/04/2010 11:24:59 PM 1126 Views
Re: Funny the things people focus on - 23/04/2010 05:28:54 PM 1127 Views
People who see this as an ecological book are missing the point of the book - 16/04/2010 06:28:40 PM 1645 Views
Books can have more than one theme. Great books almost always do. *NM* - 16/04/2010 07:15:11 PM 562 Views
I agree with that I just never really the ecological theme to Dune - 16/04/2010 10:12:26 PM 1315 Views
Ecology goes more than one way - 17/04/2010 12:12:45 AM 1258 Views
There are several points to the book/series - 17/04/2010 12:11:38 AM 1349 Views
Everyone get something different from a book - 19/04/2010 07:01:51 PM 1528 Views
I believe those themes become more pronounced later in the series - 20/04/2010 10:09:36 PM 1265 Views
I remember having hated every single character of this book. Some random thoughts - 17/04/2010 05:08:25 PM 1448 Views
I hope you got to Darwi Odrade - 21/04/2010 03:44:27 PM 1155 Views
Re: Frank Herbert, Dune - 17/04/2010 08:05:16 PM 1736 Views
I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 17/04/2010 10:22:27 PM 1554 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 18/04/2010 04:38:10 AM 1547 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 19/04/2010 04:04:43 AM 1403 Views
Re: I guess we'll have a few disagreements here, Dom - 22/04/2010 04:31:26 AM 1152 Views
I thought all of Dune had begun as a serial in a SF magazine. *NM* - 22/04/2010 01:58:22 PM 503 Views
And Dune Messiah as well was serialized at first, in Galaxy *NM* - 22/04/2010 09:31:54 PM 508 Views
Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 19/04/2010 08:42:18 AM 1700 Views
Re: Dune Messiah (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 21/04/2010 03:33:46 PM 1152 Views
I didn't see that in Alia - 21/04/2010 11:27:22 PM 1085 Views
One of my favorite series! - 21/04/2010 03:30:57 PM 1057 Views
I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 21/04/2010 11:29:50 PM 996 Views
Re: I didn't "miss it" as much as I chose to deemphasize it - 22/04/2010 04:02:26 PM 1087 Views
His style doesn't appeal to me as much, unfortunately - 22/04/2010 09:17:21 PM 1034 Views
You might want to track down his short stories one day... - 23/04/2010 02:06:09 PM 1218 Views
Children of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 22/04/2010 06:47:04 AM 1208 Views
See...I think I made a mistake in my reading of Dune - 22/04/2010 07:26:28 AM 1177 Views
Depends - 22/04/2010 08:01:39 AM 1061 Views
Re: Depends - 22/04/2010 11:12:15 PM 1446 Views
read something else - 23/04/2010 07:49:34 PM 1049 Views
LA Times article on Dune (4/18/2010) - 23/04/2010 10:59:00 AM 1008 Views
God Emperor of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 25/04/2010 02:03:37 AM 1395 Views
Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 28/04/2010 06:02:54 AM 1043 Views
Re: Heretics of Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 29/04/2010 03:26:28 PM 1168 Views
I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 29/04/2010 09:44:07 PM 1067 Views
Re: I read the wiki synopses of those two books - 10/05/2010 04:10:49 AM 1416 Views
Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 30/04/2010 02:31:10 PM 1233 Views
Re: Chapterhouse: Dune (2001 initial read; 2010 re-read) - 10/05/2010 01:24:33 AM 1285 Views

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