I don't disagree that it's a sensitivity thing
LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 17/08/2010 08:10:01 PM
But one big difference with this structure (As opposed to your pool example) is that people can avoid it. NYC is huge. I'd be interested to know in just how many people can NOT avoid the cultural center.
Also, while I understand people's grief, their hurt and their rage is misplaced in attacking Muslim-Americans who lost loved ones as well. I think this project is a good opportunity to mend some rage and grief and bring people to terms with their loss and those who they perceive have caused it. To take your pool example, it's as if the neighbors building the pool are going to use it, not only for pleasure, but for educating others in pool safety and training lifeguards
I simply believe that the potential good this facility can accomplish (and the ability of people to avoid it) outweighs the potential for hurt. I may be wrong, though. It wouldn't be the first time.
Also, while I understand people's grief, their hurt and their rage is misplaced in attacking Muslim-Americans who lost loved ones as well. I think this project is a good opportunity to mend some rage and grief and bring people to terms with their loss and those who they perceive have caused it. To take your pool example, it's as if the neighbors building the pool are going to use it, not only for pleasure, but for educating others in pool safety and training lifeguards
I simply believe that the potential good this facility can accomplish (and the ability of people to avoid it) outweighs the potential for hurt. I may be wrong, though. It wouldn't be the first time.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
Wait, wait WAIT! The location for the so-called "mosque at ground zero" is actually 2 blocks away?!
17/08/2010 03:19:02 PM
- 2490 Views
Another stupid question...is it even actually a mosque?
17/08/2010 03:28:37 PM
- 1334 Views
it's both from what I've heard.
17/08/2010 04:00:54 PM
- 1257 Views
sort of like most churches, mosques and temples? *NM*
17/08/2010 04:04:12 PM
- 632 Views
mmm, i think more like...
17/08/2010 04:08:55 PM
- 1223 Views
my wife's church has a play ground and community center
17/08/2010 04:47:52 PM
- 1249 Views
Been hearing a lot on NPR
17/08/2010 03:32:42 PM
- 1329 Views
I could see it being insensitive if it were actually where the towers used to be.
17/08/2010 03:43:18 PM
- 1418 Views
This could be part of the reason that most of the opposition doesn't seem to be coming from locals.
17/08/2010 03:53:06 PM
- 1323 Views
seriously, it's not like property is some ample commodity in NYC *NM*
17/08/2010 04:03:24 PM
- 646 Views
you should probably keep in mind....
17/08/2010 04:02:25 PM
- 1353 Views
So
17/08/2010 04:06:18 PM
- 1403 Views
Ground Zero specifically refers to the north and south towers where the planes struck...
17/08/2010 04:26:40 PM
- 1335 Views
it certainly has turned into a political land mine for Obama...
17/08/2010 03:54:03 PM
- 1261 Views
True
17/08/2010 04:02:04 PM
- 1076 Views
unfortunately...
17/08/2010 04:05:08 PM
- 1227 Views
This is beginning to sound familiar.
17/08/2010 05:18:37 PM
- 1434 Views
with the senate majority leader weighing it I don't believe it is all how it is mostly on the right
17/08/2010 05:58:10 PM
- 1333 Views
Well, since day 1 of this whole debate alot of the opposition has come from the right.
17/08/2010 10:50:49 PM
- 1288 Views
you assume it is pandering maybe they just agree with the majority
18/08/2010 02:30:53 AM
- 1257 Views
I'm not saying it's a partisan issue, but it has turned political for all the wrong reasons.
18/08/2010 04:18:49 AM
- 1406 Views
is the idea that it is not to close to ground zero the misinformation you are refering to?
18/08/2010 03:09:17 PM
- 1257 Views
Well, it's not like they're literally on ground zero.
18/08/2010 08:54:08 PM
- 1395 Views
Guess which of them will be out of a job in January?
18/08/2010 01:22:49 PM
- 1271 Views

the only reason Obama won't be out of job is he isn't running
18/08/2010 03:10:58 PM
- 1223 Views
Oh, I dunno if you could translate the current numbers into Obamas defeat.
18/08/2010 03:52:18 PM
- 1296 Views
it was a large event so two half blocks really is pretty damn close
17/08/2010 04:03:17 PM
- 1365 Views
Here's a map of the site for perspective
17/08/2010 04:08:41 PM
- 1400 Views
so 2 blocks from the superblock then?
17/08/2010 04:13:03 PM
- 1407 Views
I guess, superblock is an obscure term to this country lad
17/08/2010 04:41:11 PM
- 1246 Views
It may not necessarily matter to people who are aware of that fact.
17/08/2010 05:13:12 PM
- 1221 Views
mk, well, to my mind (being from phoeni
, 1 full city block is about 1 mile.
17/08/2010 05:15:49 PM
- 1290 Views

A mile is a serious exaggeration, surely.
17/08/2010 05:24:48 PM
- 1410 Views
Remember, I did say in Phoenix
17/08/2010 05:27:43 PM
- 1305 Views

I really need to see Phoenix some day.
17/08/2010 05:32:40 PM
- 1317 Views
i still think houston is more spread out than phoenix
18/08/2010 08:21:10 AM
- 1328 Views
unless you go far enough west of course
18/08/2010 03:30:45 PM
- 1177 Views
Absolutely.
17/08/2010 05:28:38 PM
- 1299 Views
Yeah, and it seems to be about 10 autobuses in distance on Google Earth.
17/08/2010 05:29:43 PM
- 1188 Views
Google Earth says 500 feet between mosque and GZ *NM*
17/08/2010 05:30:59 PM
- 594 Views
*edit* Just for reference... one mile = 5280 feet, 500ft = approx 1/10 of a mile.
17/08/2010 06:26:19 PM
- 1264 Views
Judging by Google Earth, the blocks inbetween both contain a single large building. (edit)
17/08/2010 07:08:05 PM
- 1145 Views
Clarify: 500 ft between the mosque and the border of the area on the map? *NM*
17/08/2010 07:03:51 PM
- 603 Views
Personally, I think this supports Ave's point.
17/08/2010 04:16:15 PM
- 1344 Views
You know what else is on Park Place? A strip club.
17/08/2010 11:58:56 PM
- 1195 Views
Really? I had no idea
18/08/2010 12:06:27 AM
- 1310 Views
Re: Really? I had no idea
18/08/2010 12:24:54 AM
- 1326 Views
Hmm...
18/08/2010 01:23:14 AM
- 1260 Views
knowing there's a strip club and "walking those streets"; seems like you've "gotten around"
18/08/2010 02:03:14 AM
- 1262 Views

They're building on the hallowed ground of a Burlington Coat Factory!
17/08/2010 04:13:06 PM
- 1327 Views
how so?
17/08/2010 04:14:17 PM
- 1157 Views
From when the Moors conquered Spain
17/08/2010 04:18:18 PM
- 1393 Views
to clarify though
17/08/2010 04:50:19 PM
- 1193 Views
Yes, but you have to remember the mindset of those protesting.
17/08/2010 09:49:26 PM
- 1270 Views
Sorry, but the card says it was "the Moops" so you must be wrong.
18/08/2010 03:56:11 PM
- 1255 Views
Ezra Klein made a good point in the Washington Post...
17/08/2010 04:33:31 PM
- 1170 Views
that is hardly the same thing
17/08/2010 04:56:43 PM
- 1275 Views
My question is, why would you want to put a mosque/community center/thing that close?
17/08/2010 04:39:05 PM
- 1229 Views
angry New Yorkers?
17/08/2010 04:45:01 PM
- 1343 Views
I was going to guess 4 protests to your earlier post.
17/08/2010 04:50:08 PM
- 1312 Views

We do not live in fear of what "a few crazy people" might do. *NM*
18/08/2010 12:02:06 AM
- 583 Views
Re: angry New Yorkers?
17/08/2010 04:53:58 PM
- 1225 Views
I was wondering about that.
17/08/2010 04:56:28 PM
- 1343 Views
angry New Yorkers? Geez, we are more civilized than that, thank you. *NM*
18/08/2010 12:01:12 AM
- 584 Views
not really *NM*
18/08/2010 02:31:46 AM
- 496 Views
your opinion is noted. now go eff yourself. *NM*
18/08/2010 04:11:25 AM
- 544 Views
that's pretty good
18/08/2010 04:44:14 AM
- 1236 Views
That's right. Why resort to violence when a good rant will do? *NM*
18/08/2010 06:09:27 AM
- 560 Views
and a heart fuck off to you but thanks for the ironic reply *NM*
18/08/2010 03:18:25 PM
- 586 Views
How is it ironic? *NM*
18/08/2010 03:43:50 PM
- 604 Views
How was his uncivilized response ironic? *NM*
18/08/2010 04:18:17 PM
- 564 Views
Re: How was his uncivilized response ironic?
18/08/2010 04:23:25 PM
- 1183 Views
Aaah
18/08/2010 04:31:02 PM
- 1243 Views
Because the building is cheap as hell, because they're mostly abandoned in those areas
18/08/2010 01:25:13 AM
- 1265 Views
Something I'm confused on
17/08/2010 04:59:41 PM
- 1500 Views
another thing to consider.
17/08/2010 05:02:38 PM
- 1209 Views
You'll have to explain to me what that has to do with what I said
17/08/2010 05:10:21 PM
- 1213 Views
Of course you're confused. It was a tangental thought.
17/08/2010 06:06:29 PM
- 1261 Views
Fair enough, I can't really criticize others for going off on tangents since I do it so much
*NM*
17/08/2010 06:36:54 PM
- 590 Views

From what I understand, there's another mosque very close to the site
17/08/2010 05:06:26 PM
- 1381 Views
I understand there's also a strip club and a xxx movie rental shop within that same 2 blocks radius.
17/08/2010 05:09:26 PM
- 1260 Views
True but the buildings were not nocked down by radical strippers
*NM*
17/08/2010 05:52:04 PM
- 591 Views

What do strip clubs and dirty movies and gay bars have to do with 9/11?
*NM*
18/08/2010 12:33:59 AM
- 610 Views

Nothing, which is precisely the point. *NM*
18/08/2010 12:37:52 AM
- 616 Views
Can you explain your point to me then? Because I'm not following it.
18/08/2010 01:21:13 AM
- 1192 Views
The argument is that it's "hallowed ground" and therefore should be treated with "respect"
18/08/2010 01:26:44 AM
- 1357 Views
Pretty much what Greg said.
18/08/2010 09:39:33 AM
- 1266 Views
then you are missing the point
18/08/2010 04:02:49 PM
- 1336 Views
In all fairness...
18/08/2010 09:46:26 PM
- 1276 Views
these guys are not babes in the woods
19/08/2010 12:28:24 PM
- 1156 Views
This whole debate disgusts me.
17/08/2010 05:24:56 PM
- 1438 Views
Jon Stewart made good point last night
17/08/2010 05:34:19 PM
- 1313 Views
but it's the CONCEPT!!! practical effect is not the POINT of political debate!! *NM*
17/08/2010 05:53:30 PM
- 598 Views
which is why Obama was crazy to get anywhere this issue
17/08/2010 06:01:44 PM
- 1186 Views
He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't
17/08/2010 06:18:16 PM
- 1206 Views
More than anything, I see this being a sensitivity issue....
17/08/2010 07:43:45 PM
- 1236 Views
17/08/2010 07:52:07 PM
- 1251 Views

Right on.
17/08/2010 08:09:44 PM
- 1192 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR.
17/08/2010 08:12:20 PM
- 989 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR.
17/08/2010 08:12:21 PM
- 1259 Views
The crux is they can't HELP stirring "up the grief and pain of the past. "
18/08/2010 01:49:21 PM
- 1324 Views
are you serious?
17/08/2010 08:01:01 PM
- 1339 Views
Yes, I am...
17/08/2010 08:14:27 PM
- 1234 Views
The point is your analogy does not hold
17/08/2010 08:19:29 PM
- 1233 Views
Plus
17/08/2010 08:26:36 PM
- 1285 Views
Re: Yes, I am...
17/08/2010 08:42:27 PM
- 1290 Views
Aren't they?
17/08/2010 09:19:58 PM
- 1312 Views
You may be interested in...
17/08/2010 09:23:48 PM
- 1405 Views
*nods* So I was right....
17/08/2010 09:26:59 PM
- 1119 Views
That is probably not fair
17/08/2010 11:12:22 PM
- 1222 Views
I know!
18/08/2010 03:06:25 AM
- 1230 Views
Using a touch of hyperbole, perhaps?
18/08/2010 10:18:36 AM
- 1252 Views
I'm so proud of you for noticing!
18/08/2010 10:48:14 AM
- 1315 Views

Just making sure you knew I wasn't mistaking your reply for a constructive one
18/08/2010 12:08:41 PM
- 1205 Views

I give constuctive replies where they are due
18/08/2010 12:30:42 PM
- 1276 Views
COMPLETELY unrelated point that I don't blame you for ignoring...
19/08/2010 04:25:31 AM
- 1157 Views
you are right of course
17/08/2010 08:22:23 PM
- 1202 Views
I don't disagree that it's a sensitivity thing
17/08/2010 08:10:01 PM
- 1361 Views
So, you're saying muslims should leave nyc to show their sensitivity, right?
17/08/2010 10:31:55 PM
- 1164 Views
so your saying you always speak in over the top rhetoric?
18/08/2010 03:22:20 PM
- 1068 Views
THANK YOU
18/08/2010 01:13:16 AM
- 1312 Views
Take deep breaths..
18/08/2010 05:25:16 AM
- 1215 Views
Typing a post didn't really require all that much effort
18/08/2010 06:13:15 AM
- 1303 Views
There are more important things in the world to worry about
18/08/2010 08:51:35 AM
- 1279 Views
I disagree, anger doesn't help in this debate, and it's only going to make things worse.
18/08/2010 10:56:30 AM
- 1284 Views
So what, the Americans supporting this mosque are "arrogant European pricks"?
18/08/2010 10:12:51 AM
- 1106 Views
Kind of a stretch for you to make that assumption
18/08/2010 11:31:16 AM
- 1288 Views

I hadn't read that other exchange yet, it made more sense after that.
18/08/2010 12:35:18 PM
- 1316 Views
My only real objection is the same old one over whether respect is an entitlement.
18/08/2010 02:21:19 PM
- 1150 Views
A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11
18/08/2010 01:23:11 AM
- 1299 Views
Here comes the "xenophobia card."
18/08/2010 01:27:50 AM
- 1299 Views
Which is why there was a bombing at another mosque earlier this year
18/08/2010 01:31:51 AM
- 1230 Views
I think a better parallel would be the new neighbors opening a pool store.
18/08/2010 01:40:42 PM
- 1325 Views
A guy on CNN made a really good point about this
17/08/2010 08:46:54 PM
- 1339 Views
That analogy really isn't better than Jeo's, and I would think worse.
*NM*
17/08/2010 09:02:50 PM
- 595 Views

hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog
17/08/2010 09:22:15 PM
- 1281 Views
Re: hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog
17/08/2010 10:32:24 PM
- 1411 Views
Yeah this whole debate is pretty pointless to be completely honest
17/08/2010 10:28:13 PM
- 1294 Views
well we have been shot at from enough mosque to make it hard to tell at times
18/08/2010 08:25:58 PM
- 1284 Views
I think this whole debate has made American look bad.
17/08/2010 10:58:23 PM
- 1197 Views
So what?
18/08/2010 12:28:40 AM
- 1254 Views
Okay, so we're no longer the land of religous tolerance.
18/08/2010 04:09:24 AM
- 1468 Views
Were we ever?
18/08/2010 04:18:16 AM
- 1417 Views
I guess not.
18/08/2010 04:25:03 AM
- 1383 Views
Re: I guess not.
18/08/2010 05:56:49 AM
- 1228 Views
Re: I guess not.
18/08/2010 10:43:05 AM
- 1243 Views
How does this work, do you only look bad to a bunch of ass wipes, or does anyone who thinks you look
18/08/2010 09:38:28 AM
- 1187 Views
Olberman's Special Comment on this one hits the nail on the head
18/08/2010 01:29:45 AM
- 1303 Views
love that the Olberman video, but Jon Stewart did an awesome job too. *NM*
18/08/2010 01:32:59 AM
- 536 Views
Olbermann and Stewart are possibly the two best people alive *NM*
18/08/2010 02:39:48 AM
- 629 Views
they make the top of my list for people I wnat to catch an STD *NM*
18/08/2010 08:27:27 PM
- 570 Views
Let me just say...
18/08/2010 09:20:38 PM
- 1271 Views
Re: Let me just say...
18/08/2010 09:22:12 PM
- 1250 Views
I didn't watch that particular video, so maybe, yeah. *NM*
18/08/2010 10:11:22 PM
- 610 Views
I used to be so Idealistic to think this was AMERICA.
18/08/2010 01:44:38 AM
- 1338 Views
the key phrase is "congress shall make no law...."
18/08/2010 02:23:53 AM
- 1358 Views
14th ammendment changed that *NM*
18/08/2010 04:51:08 AM
- 576 Views
14th ammendment established a state religion?
18/08/2010 08:14:11 AM
- 1179 Views
No, but the Equal Protection Clause extended much of the BoR to the states.
18/08/2010 02:50:31 PM
- 1303 Views
did you go the the Huffington Post school of law?
18/08/2010 03:29:14 PM
- 1224 Views
No, but I've spent more time around lawyers than I care to admit.
18/08/2010 03:45:36 PM
- 1320 Views
The connection is inevitable and, I think, deliberate.
18/08/2010 01:15:41 PM
- 1340 Views
Hmm
18/08/2010 02:26:17 PM
- 1185 Views
Bottom line is it may be in everyones interest to DISassociate Islam from 911.
18/08/2010 02:58:17 PM
- 1237 Views
No, bottom line is people need to be able to keep to thoughts in their brains at any given time *NM*
18/08/2010 03:31:03 PM
- 568 Views
You mean retain both "I want to promote Islam" AND "Dude, Ground Zero is right THERE! *points*"
18/08/2010 03:36:34 PM
- 1222 Views
How long ago were the Crusades?
18/08/2010 03:48:53 PM
- 1183 Views
Re: How long ago were the Crusades?
18/08/2010 03:52:23 PM
- 1222 Views
So wait...
18/08/2010 04:09:10 PM
- 1156 Views
Yes, Jerodam. Christians are good. All the rest are bad. I see it now.
18/08/2010 04:10:47 PM
- 1251 Views
Stop freaking out Camilla. You are such a drama queen some times.
18/08/2010 04:15:06 PM
- 1199 Views
That is not drama. That is fed up. *NM*
18/08/2010 04:16:32 PM
- 638 Views
You're not the only one who is fed up....
18/08/2010 04:24:27 PM
- 1084 Views
*giggle*
18/08/2010 04:29:03 PM
- 1262 Views
This may be nitpicking, but I'll do it anyway because it's a widespread misconception...
18/08/2010 04:30:20 PM
- 1196 Views
I agreed with you at first - thought your first post was pretty insightful.
18/08/2010 05:46:02 PM
- 1232 Views
The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way
18/08/2010 04:04:54 PM
- 1236 Views
Re: The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way
18/08/2010 04:11:34 PM
- 1225 Views
Some people will always wonder about such things; we're still accused of "Crusading" today.
18/08/2010 04:07:02 PM
- 1225 Views
I don't disagree about the outreach, as such, but a remark...
18/08/2010 04:37:52 PM
- 1100 Views
It's as much a local issue as the theme park Disney wanted to build at Gettysburg.
19/08/2010 03:15:03 PM
- 1149 Views
A bit more background information
18/08/2010 05:30:04 PM
- 1378 Views
That's informative, thanks, but I'm not sure it really changes anything.
19/08/2010 03:27:05 PM
- 1153 Views
Step One: Manufacture controversey by means of misinformation (i.e. Mosque at Ground Zero)
19/08/2010 06:40:49 PM
- 1365 Views
Can I just say...
19/08/2010 01:45:38 AM
- 1134 Views
Roughly 2 football fields, yes. And around a corner
19/08/2010 03:17:24 PM
- 1245 Views
Two hundred yards is nothing.
19/08/2010 04:44:34 PM
- 1192 Views
Sure it is - it's two large city blocks
19/08/2010 05:15:46 PM
- 1249 Views
It's two fairly average city blocks, and not even that some places.
21/08/2010 06:07:33 PM
- 1212 Views