Various religions have been disapproved of (sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly) by the masses since the beginning of the nation. This isn't a new thing.
Seems as steady as its always been. And it likely won't go away either, no matter how many boots you lick.
And people wonder why anti-Americanism is on the rise.
Seems as steady as its always been. And it likely won't go away either, no matter how many boots you lick.
It's the first amendment to the Constitution. RI only EXISTS because Roger Williams wanted some place more religiously tolerant than MA, so he founded one. Historically, we've gone after members of a given religion more for the harm their specific practices, or supposed practices, are believed to do to society. I'm no great fan of Mormonism, but even they weren't persecuted for being Mormon, but for what amounted to charges of sedition (the polygamy thing is, IMHO, purely about accepted social standards, since the dominant Christianity of the time does not condemn frequently seems to condone polygamy. )
And there was also a time when we didn't have to "lick boots" to be popular internationally. It ended around 1945, when we stopped being the idealist upstart nation that spoke truth to powerful empires and decided to simply BECOME a powerful empire. Flash back as recently as 1905 and we see Japan and Russia REQUEST the sitting US President run their peace conference because they actually TRUSTED America to be an impartial arbitrator. Both of them. But, as with individuals, once they reach the top people often behave very differently from the way they did on the way up there. Sure, there's plenty of jealousy and inferiority to go around, but the sad and simple fact is that the biggest reason we're seen as jerks by a lot more people than we were 60 years ago is because we ACT like jerks so much more often now.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Wait, wait WAIT! The location for the so-called "mosque at ground zero" is actually 2 blocks away?!
- 17/08/2010 03:19:02 PM
2531 Views
Another stupid question...is it even actually a mosque?
- 17/08/2010 03:28:37 PM
1384 Views
it's both from what I've heard.
- 17/08/2010 04:00:54 PM
1305 Views
sort of like most churches, mosques and temples? *NM*
- 17/08/2010 04:04:12 PM
650 Views
mmm, i think more like...
- 17/08/2010 04:08:55 PM
1276 Views
my wife's church has a play ground and community center
- 17/08/2010 04:47:52 PM
1297 Views
Been hearing a lot on NPR
- 17/08/2010 03:32:42 PM
1376 Views
I could see it being insensitive if it were actually where the towers used to be.
- 17/08/2010 03:43:18 PM
1461 Views
This could be part of the reason that most of the opposition doesn't seem to be coming from locals.
- 17/08/2010 03:53:06 PM
1369 Views
seriously, it's not like property is some ample commodity in NYC *NM*
- 17/08/2010 04:03:24 PM
687 Views
you should probably keep in mind....
- 17/08/2010 04:02:25 PM
1392 Views
So
- 17/08/2010 04:06:18 PM
1450 Views
Ground Zero specifically refers to the north and south towers where the planes struck...
- 17/08/2010 04:26:40 PM
1377 Views
it certainly has turned into a political land mine for Obama...
- 17/08/2010 03:54:03 PM
1310 Views
True
- 17/08/2010 04:02:04 PM
1118 Views
unfortunately...
- 17/08/2010 04:05:08 PM
1271 Views
This is beginning to sound familiar.
- 17/08/2010 05:18:37 PM
1477 Views
with the senate majority leader weighing it I don't believe it is all how it is mostly on the right
- 17/08/2010 05:58:10 PM
1376 Views
Well, since day 1 of this whole debate alot of the opposition has come from the right.
- 17/08/2010 10:50:49 PM
1343 Views
you assume it is pandering maybe they just agree with the majority
- 18/08/2010 02:30:53 AM
1301 Views
I'm not saying it's a partisan issue, but it has turned political for all the wrong reasons.
- 18/08/2010 04:18:49 AM
1457 Views
is the idea that it is not to close to ground zero the misinformation you are refering to?
- 18/08/2010 03:09:17 PM
1304 Views
Well, it's not like they're literally on ground zero.
- 18/08/2010 08:54:08 PM
1465 Views
Guess which of them will be out of a job in January?
- 18/08/2010 01:22:49 PM
1314 Views
- 18/08/2010 01:22:49 PM
1314 Views
the only reason Obama won't be out of job is he isn't running
- 18/08/2010 03:10:58 PM
1267 Views
Oh, I dunno if you could translate the current numbers into Obamas defeat.
- 18/08/2010 03:52:18 PM
1336 Views
it was a large event so two half blocks really is pretty damn close
- 17/08/2010 04:03:17 PM
1414 Views
Here's a map of the site for perspective
- 17/08/2010 04:08:41 PM
1451 Views
so 2 blocks from the superblock then?
- 17/08/2010 04:13:03 PM
1450 Views
I guess, superblock is an obscure term to this country lad
- 17/08/2010 04:41:11 PM
1285 Views
It may not necessarily matter to people who are aware of that fact.
- 17/08/2010 05:13:12 PM
1274 Views
mk, well, to my mind (being from phoeni
, 1 full city block is about 1 mile.
- 17/08/2010 05:15:49 PM
1327 Views
, 1 full city block is about 1 mile.
- 17/08/2010 05:15:49 PM
1327 Views
A mile is a serious exaggeration, surely.
- 17/08/2010 05:24:48 PM
1457 Views
Remember, I did say in Phoenix
- 17/08/2010 05:27:43 PM
1358 Views
- 17/08/2010 05:27:43 PM
1358 Views
I really need to see Phoenix some day.
- 17/08/2010 05:32:40 PM
1365 Views
i still think houston is more spread out than phoenix
- 18/08/2010 08:21:10 AM
1370 Views
unless you go far enough west of course
- 18/08/2010 03:30:45 PM
1225 Views
Absolutely.
- 17/08/2010 05:28:38 PM
1343 Views
Yeah, and it seems to be about 10 autobuses in distance on Google Earth.
- 17/08/2010 05:29:43 PM
1251 Views
Google Earth says 500 feet between mosque and GZ *NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:30:59 PM
615 Views
*edit* Just for reference... one mile = 5280 feet, 500ft = approx 1/10 of a mile.
- 17/08/2010 06:26:19 PM
1313 Views
Judging by Google Earth, the blocks inbetween both contain a single large building. (edit)
- 17/08/2010 07:08:05 PM
1187 Views
Clarify: 500 ft between the mosque and the border of the area on the map? *NM*
- 17/08/2010 07:03:51 PM
622 Views
Personally, I think this supports Ave's point.
- 17/08/2010 04:16:15 PM
1387 Views
You know what else is on Park Place? A strip club.
- 17/08/2010 11:58:56 PM
1257 Views
Really? I had no idea
- 18/08/2010 12:06:27 AM
1375 Views
Re: Really? I had no idea
- 18/08/2010 12:24:54 AM
1370 Views
Hmm...
- 18/08/2010 01:23:14 AM
1299 Views
knowing there's a strip club and "walking those streets"; seems like you've "gotten around"
- 18/08/2010 02:03:14 AM
1321 Views
- 18/08/2010 02:03:14 AM
1321 Views
They're building on the hallowed ground of a Burlington Coat Factory!
- 17/08/2010 04:13:06 PM
1371 Views
how so?
- 17/08/2010 04:14:17 PM
1196 Views
From when the Moors conquered Spain
- 17/08/2010 04:18:18 PM
1440 Views
to clarify though
- 17/08/2010 04:50:19 PM
1237 Views
Yes, but you have to remember the mindset of those protesting.
- 17/08/2010 09:49:26 PM
1318 Views
Sorry, but the card says it was "the Moops" so you must be wrong.
- 18/08/2010 03:56:11 PM
1302 Views
Ezra Klein made a good point in the Washington Post...
- 17/08/2010 04:33:31 PM
1230 Views
that is hardly the same thing
- 17/08/2010 04:56:43 PM
1316 Views
My question is, why would you want to put a mosque/community center/thing that close?
- 17/08/2010 04:39:05 PM
1273 Views
angry New Yorkers?
- 17/08/2010 04:45:01 PM
1388 Views
I was going to guess 4 protests to your earlier post.
- 17/08/2010 04:50:08 PM
1360 Views
- 17/08/2010 04:50:08 PM
1360 Views
We do not live in fear of what "a few crazy people" might do. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:02:06 AM
602 Views
Re: angry New Yorkers?
- 17/08/2010 04:53:58 PM
1276 Views
I was wondering about that.
- 17/08/2010 04:56:28 PM
1390 Views
angry New Yorkers? Geez, we are more civilized than that, thank you. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:01:12 AM
602 Views
not really *NM*
- 18/08/2010 02:31:46 AM
514 Views
your opinion is noted. now go eff yourself. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:11:25 AM
562 Views
that's pretty good
- 18/08/2010 04:44:14 AM
1294 Views
That's right. Why resort to violence when a good rant will do? *NM*
- 18/08/2010 06:09:27 AM
581 Views
and a heart fuck off to you but thanks for the ironic reply *NM*
- 18/08/2010 03:18:25 PM
605 Views
How is it ironic? *NM*
- 18/08/2010 03:43:50 PM
649 Views
How was his uncivilized response ironic? *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:18:17 PM
585 Views
Re: How was his uncivilized response ironic?
- 18/08/2010 04:23:25 PM
1231 Views
Aaah
- 18/08/2010 04:31:02 PM
1282 Views
Because the building is cheap as hell, because they're mostly abandoned in those areas
- 18/08/2010 01:25:13 AM
1314 Views
Something I'm confused on
- 17/08/2010 04:59:41 PM
1544 Views
another thing to consider.
- 17/08/2010 05:02:38 PM
1255 Views
You'll have to explain to me what that has to do with what I said
- 17/08/2010 05:10:21 PM
1255 Views
Of course you're confused. It was a tangental thought.
- 17/08/2010 06:06:29 PM
1304 Views
Fair enough, I can't really criticize others for going off on tangents since I do it so much
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 06:36:54 PM
615 Views
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 06:36:54 PM
615 Views
From what I understand, there's another mosque very close to the site
- 17/08/2010 05:06:26 PM
1426 Views
I understand there's also a strip club and a xxx movie rental shop within that same 2 blocks radius.
- 17/08/2010 05:09:26 PM
1308 Views
True but the buildings were not nocked down by radical strippers
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:52:04 PM
629 Views
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:52:04 PM
629 Views
What do strip clubs and dirty movies and gay bars have to do with 9/11?
*NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:33:59 AM
629 Views
*NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:33:59 AM
629 Views
Nothing, which is precisely the point. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 12:37:52 AM
636 Views
Can you explain your point to me then? Because I'm not following it.
- 18/08/2010 01:21:13 AM
1238 Views
The argument is that it's "hallowed ground" and therefore should be treated with "respect"
- 18/08/2010 01:26:44 AM
1402 Views
Pretty much what Greg said.
- 18/08/2010 09:39:33 AM
1308 Views
then you are missing the point
- 18/08/2010 04:02:49 PM
1390 Views
In all fairness...
- 18/08/2010 09:46:26 PM
1324 Views
these guys are not babes in the woods
- 19/08/2010 12:28:24 PM
1203 Views
This whole debate disgusts me.
- 17/08/2010 05:24:56 PM
1504 Views
Jon Stewart made good point last night
- 17/08/2010 05:34:19 PM
1366 Views
but it's the CONCEPT!!! practical effect is not the POINT of political debate!! *NM*
- 17/08/2010 05:53:30 PM
619 Views
which is why Obama was crazy to get anywhere this issue
- 17/08/2010 06:01:44 PM
1239 Views
He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't
- 17/08/2010 06:18:16 PM
1249 Views
More than anything, I see this being a sensitivity issue....
- 17/08/2010 07:43:45 PM
1305 Views
- 17/08/2010 07:52:07 PM
1293 Views
- 17/08/2010 07:52:07 PM
1293 Views
Right on.
- 17/08/2010 08:09:44 PM
1234 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR.
- 17/08/2010 08:12:20 PM
1033 Views
yah, it sounds like the builders aren't being very thoughtful in their PR.
- 17/08/2010 08:12:21 PM
1319 Views
The crux is they can't HELP stirring "up the grief and pain of the past. "
- 18/08/2010 01:49:21 PM
1369 Views
are you serious?
- 17/08/2010 08:01:01 PM
1400 Views
Yes, I am...
- 17/08/2010 08:14:27 PM
1289 Views
The point is your analogy does not hold
- 17/08/2010 08:19:29 PM
1280 Views
Plus
- 17/08/2010 08:26:36 PM
1327 Views
Re: Yes, I am...
- 17/08/2010 08:42:27 PM
1353 Views
Aren't they?
- 17/08/2010 09:19:58 PM
1361 Views
You may be interested in...
- 17/08/2010 09:23:48 PM
1452 Views
*nods* So I was right....
- 17/08/2010 09:26:59 PM
1163 Views
That is probably not fair
- 17/08/2010 11:12:22 PM
1269 Views
I know!
- 18/08/2010 03:06:25 AM
1272 Views
Using a touch of hyperbole, perhaps?
- 18/08/2010 10:18:36 AM
1335 Views
I'm so proud of you for noticing!
- 18/08/2010 10:48:14 AM
1367 Views
- 18/08/2010 10:48:14 AM
1367 Views
Just making sure you knew I wasn't mistaking your reply for a constructive one
- 18/08/2010 12:08:41 PM
1253 Views
- 18/08/2010 12:08:41 PM
1253 Views
I give constuctive replies where they are due
- 18/08/2010 12:30:42 PM
1328 Views
COMPLETELY unrelated point that I don't blame you for ignoring...
- 19/08/2010 04:25:31 AM
1198 Views
you are right of course
- 17/08/2010 08:22:23 PM
1252 Views
So, you're saying muslims should leave nyc to show their sensitivity, right?
- 17/08/2010 10:31:55 PM
1224 Views
so your saying you always speak in over the top rhetoric?
- 18/08/2010 03:22:20 PM
1113 Views
THANK YOU
- 18/08/2010 01:13:16 AM
1358 Views
Take deep breaths..
- 18/08/2010 05:25:16 AM
1273 Views
Typing a post didn't really require all that much effort
- 18/08/2010 06:13:15 AM
1359 Views
There are more important things in the world to worry about
- 18/08/2010 08:51:35 AM
1326 Views
I disagree, anger doesn't help in this debate, and it's only going to make things worse.
- 18/08/2010 10:56:30 AM
1333 Views
So what, the Americans supporting this mosque are "arrogant European pricks"?
- 18/08/2010 10:12:51 AM
1159 Views
Kind of a stretch for you to make that assumption
- 18/08/2010 11:31:16 AM
1356 Views
- 18/08/2010 11:31:16 AM
1356 Views
I hadn't read that other exchange yet, it made more sense after that.
- 18/08/2010 12:35:18 PM
1383 Views
My only real objection is the same old one over whether respect is an entitlement.
- 18/08/2010 02:21:19 PM
1199 Views
A mosque was built in the Pentagon months after 9/11
- 18/08/2010 01:23:11 AM
1350 Views
Here comes the "xenophobia card."
- 18/08/2010 01:27:50 AM
1348 Views
Which is why there was a bombing at another mosque earlier this year
- 18/08/2010 01:31:51 AM
1276 Views
I think a better parallel would be the new neighbors opening a pool store.
- 18/08/2010 01:40:42 PM
1369 Views
A guy on CNN made a really good point about this
- 17/08/2010 08:46:54 PM
1391 Views
That analogy really isn't better than Jeo's, and I would think worse.
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 09:02:50 PM
613 Views
*NM*
- 17/08/2010 09:02:50 PM
613 Views
hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog
- 17/08/2010 09:22:15 PM
1317 Views
Re: hmm yes but that black man hadn't killed his dog
- 17/08/2010 10:32:24 PM
1460 Views
Yeah this whole debate is pretty pointless to be completely honest
- 17/08/2010 10:28:13 PM
1342 Views
well we have been shot at from enough mosque to make it hard to tell at times
- 18/08/2010 08:25:58 PM
1341 Views
I think this whole debate has made American look bad.
- 17/08/2010 10:58:23 PM
1248 Views
So what?
- 18/08/2010 12:28:40 AM
1300 Views
Okay, so we're no longer the land of religous tolerance.
- 18/08/2010 04:09:24 AM
1524 Views
Were we ever?
- 18/08/2010 04:18:16 AM
1484 Views
I guess not.
- 18/08/2010 04:25:03 AM
1435 Views
Re: I guess not.
- 18/08/2010 05:56:49 AM
1290 Views
Re: I guess not.
- 18/08/2010 10:43:05 AM
1293 Views
Yes, we were.
- 18/08/2010 02:34:39 PM
1275 Views
How does this work, do you only look bad to a bunch of ass wipes, or does anyone who thinks you look
- 18/08/2010 09:38:28 AM
1231 Views
Olberman's Special Comment on this one hits the nail on the head
- 18/08/2010 01:29:45 AM
1379 Views
love that the Olberman video, but Jon Stewart did an awesome job too. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 01:32:59 AM
554 Views
Olbermann and Stewart are possibly the two best people alive *NM*
- 18/08/2010 02:39:48 AM
655 Views
they make the top of my list for people I wnat to catch an STD *NM*
- 18/08/2010 08:27:27 PM
590 Views
Let me just say...
- 18/08/2010 09:20:38 PM
1360 Views
Re: Let me just say...
- 18/08/2010 09:22:12 PM
1315 Views
I didn't watch that particular video, so maybe, yeah. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 10:11:22 PM
631 Views
I used to be so Idealistic to think this was AMERICA.
- 18/08/2010 01:44:38 AM
1384 Views
the key phrase is "congress shall make no law...."
- 18/08/2010 02:23:53 AM
1413 Views
14th ammendment changed that *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:51:08 AM
595 Views
14th ammendment established a state religion?
- 18/08/2010 08:14:11 AM
1220 Views
No, but the Equal Protection Clause extended much of the BoR to the states.
- 18/08/2010 02:50:31 PM
1343 Views
did you go the the Huffington Post school of law?
- 18/08/2010 03:29:14 PM
1272 Views
No, but I've spent more time around lawyers than I care to admit.
- 18/08/2010 03:45:36 PM
1364 Views
The connection is inevitable and, I think, deliberate.
- 18/08/2010 01:15:41 PM
1404 Views
Hmm
- 18/08/2010 02:26:17 PM
1232 Views
Bottom line is it may be in everyones interest to DISassociate Islam from 911.
- 18/08/2010 02:58:17 PM
1289 Views
No, bottom line is people need to be able to keep to thoughts in their brains at any given time *NM*
- 18/08/2010 03:31:03 PM
588 Views
You mean retain both "I want to promote Islam" AND "Dude, Ground Zero is right THERE! *points*"
- 18/08/2010 03:36:34 PM
1269 Views
How long ago were the Crusades?
- 18/08/2010 03:48:53 PM
1231 Views
Re: How long ago were the Crusades?
- 18/08/2010 03:52:23 PM
1264 Views
So wait...
- 18/08/2010 04:09:10 PM
1205 Views
Yes, Jerodam. Christians are good. All the rest are bad. I see it now.
- 18/08/2010 04:10:47 PM
1296 Views
Stop freaking out Camilla. You are such a drama queen some times.
- 18/08/2010 04:15:06 PM
1252 Views
That is not drama. That is fed up. *NM*
- 18/08/2010 04:16:32 PM
685 Views
You're not the only one who is fed up....
- 18/08/2010 04:24:27 PM
1126 Views
*giggle*
- 18/08/2010 04:29:03 PM
1306 Views
This may be nitpicking, but I'll do it anyway because it's a widespread misconception...
- 18/08/2010 04:30:20 PM
1245 Views
I agreed with you at first - thought your first post was pretty insightful.
- 18/08/2010 05:46:02 PM
1278 Views
The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way
- 18/08/2010 04:04:54 PM
1277 Views
Re: The Crusades were by Christendom as a whole*, 9-11 isn't similar for Islam by some way
- 18/08/2010 04:11:34 PM
1285 Views
Some people will always wonder about such things; we're still accused of "Crusading" today.
- 18/08/2010 04:07:02 PM
1290 Views
I don't disagree about the outreach, as such, but a remark...
- 18/08/2010 04:37:52 PM
1155 Views
It's as much a local issue as the theme park Disney wanted to build at Gettysburg.
- 19/08/2010 03:15:03 PM
1194 Views
A bit more background information
- 18/08/2010 05:30:04 PM
1424 Views
That's informative, thanks, but I'm not sure it really changes anything.
- 19/08/2010 03:27:05 PM
1208 Views
Step One: Manufacture controversey by means of misinformation (i.e. Mosque at Ground Zero)
- 19/08/2010 06:40:49 PM
1407 Views
Can I just say...
- 19/08/2010 01:45:38 AM
1178 Views
Roughly 2 football fields, yes. And around a corner
- 19/08/2010 03:17:24 PM
1293 Views
Two hundred yards is nothing.
- 19/08/2010 04:44:34 PM
1237 Views
Sure it is - it's two large city blocks
- 19/08/2010 05:15:46 PM
1294 Views
It's two fairly average city blocks, and not even that some places.
- 21/08/2010 06:07:33 PM
1253 Views


*NM*
*NM*