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It's a valid argument. Joel Send a noteboard - 21/10/2010 03:26:46 PM
It was honestly one of the saddest things I've ever seen, and yet -- I laughed.

And to whatever wingnut is out there: don't chime in like Rush and O'Donnell's campaign noting that the constitution doesn't exactly say "separation of church and state". The people feebly defending her using this argument appear just as dense as the Republican nominee did. That's like the old uberliberal argument (which I do not support, being a big believer in an armed populace) that the second amendment doesn't support individual gun ownership because of the term "militia".

(edit: also, I like peaches).

And if it's a "long settled" legal principle, the Constitution still trumps however many courts have tried to make Jeffersons private correspondence Constitutional law. It's disingenuous and insulting to think she brought this up at random, totally ignorant of that classic Constitutional law debate. It's deliberately obtuse for a room full of lawyers to pretend that's not PRECISELY what she deliberately did, just so they can falsely accuse of her ignorance to justify mocking it. They are, to use a term they also know, begging the question, in this case "How can you be so stupid you don't know this?" when she very obviously does. It's not explicitly in the Constitution, which was carefully written by very smart lawyers. However many rulings have interpreted that language subsequently, those interpretations aren't an inherent part of the Constitution either, thus, like every other US law, they're subject to judicial review and reversal if found unconstitutional.
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"Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?" - 20/10/2010 12:33:05 AM 928 Views
You don't want her? - 20/10/2010 01:21:20 AM 491 Views
I have decided for the first time in my life to not vote this year. - 20/10/2010 01:27:13 AM 354 Views
Now there's an answer - 20/10/2010 01:47:28 AM 456 Views
Voting isn't the only way to contribute *NM* - 20/10/2010 02:42:10 AM 155 Views
And most of those posts are a guess at best. - 20/10/2010 03:02:04 AM 335 Views
Maybe you shouldn't be guessing then? - 20/10/2010 06:00:02 AM 318 Views
Issac has a point. - 20/10/2010 02:14:28 AM 339 Views
Can you not spoil your ballot? - 20/10/2010 10:19:54 AM 318 Views
Depends where you live. - 20/10/2010 01:50:30 PM 395 Views
I don't think so but an intentional no vote is just as valid as voting IMHO. *NM* - 21/10/2010 02:45:35 AM 146 Views
The difference is when they look at statistics - 21/10/2010 10:49:48 AM 316 Views
Exactly. - 21/10/2010 02:02:46 PM 439 Views
When you don't vote the bad guys win. That simple. - 20/10/2010 01:53:23 PM 448 Views
An intentional NO vote is just as valid as voting. - 21/10/2010 02:46:58 AM 317 Views
Apart from the fact there's no record of it whatsoever, yes. - 21/10/2010 01:37:46 PM 320 Views
She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... - 20/10/2010 01:25:43 AM 433 Views
Re: She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... - 20/10/2010 01:35:48 AM 365 Views
Re: (meant to be under the main thread, but I can't move it) - 20/10/2010 02:42:23 AM 340 Views
It's a valid argument. - 21/10/2010 03:26:46 PM 316 Views
i feel kinda bad for her - 20/10/2010 03:31:03 AM 387 Views
What is odd about this is that everyone is used to the 'separation' idea that they don't bother to - 20/10/2010 06:44:48 AM 360 Views
Or, you know, the letters on the topic written by the people who drafted the Constitution *NM* - 20/10/2010 07:04:47 AM 193 Views
Those aren't the Constitution though. - 20/10/2010 12:39:41 PM 346 Views
which show they considered it but did not include it *NM* - 20/10/2010 06:14:37 PM 145 Views
Yep, this. *NM* - 20/10/2010 07:40:19 PM 180 Views
Personally, I think that's splitting hairs. *NM* - 20/10/2010 09:20:28 PM 146 Views
a direct reading is splitting hairs? - 20/10/2010 09:25:14 PM 320 Views
That's what lawyers like the Founding Fathers do. - 21/10/2010 02:56:36 PM 327 Views
I actually felt bad for her - 20/10/2010 10:46:57 AM 339 Views
She's right. - 20/10/2010 12:27:55 PM 459 Views
I'm less concerned about what she said than why she said it. *NM* - 20/10/2010 01:32:38 PM 241 Views
It is on youtube - 20/10/2010 02:40:12 PM 357 Views
Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:03:30 PM 369 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:32:02 PM 323 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:36:48 PM 308 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:53:46 PM 311 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 04:01:49 PM 395 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 05:12:28 PM 301 Views
Because she knew her audience, she expected them to know better, not be deliberately obtuse. - 21/10/2010 02:31:19 PM 340 Views
See Dreaded Anomaly's reply below. - 21/10/2010 03:03:02 PM 375 Views
Done. - 21/10/2010 04:50:52 PM 311 Views
Yet another reason you aren't a lawyer. *NM* - 21/10/2010 05:09:16 PM 118 Views
Because I don't accept arguments I consider unproven? - 21/10/2010 05:23:52 PM 356 Views
I see we have replaced the PDS with ODS - 20/10/2010 03:05:58 PM 317 Views
It only depends on just how finely one wants to split hairs. - 20/10/2010 04:02:28 PM 308 Views
no it depends how far you want to stretch the Constitution to say things it doesn't say - 20/10/2010 04:19:04 PM 311 Views
No it does not show that. - 21/10/2010 02:58:32 AM 296 Views
It doesn't matter what some of them may have wanted - 21/10/2010 02:54:54 PM 292 Views
Treaty of Tripoli through the Establishment clause fairly explicitly affirms this. Sorry. *NM* - 21/10/2010 03:56:09 AM 130 Views
OK which clause allows for amending the Constitution by treaty? I can't seem to find it *NM* - 21/10/2010 02:59:01 PM 128 Views
Supremacy clause, not establishment clause. My mistake. - 21/10/2010 05:07:18 PM 309 Views
Sorry, but the Treaty of Tripolis relevant section still seems like commentary. - 21/10/2010 05:18:00 PM 285 Views
This is quickly becoming infuriating. - 22/10/2010 01:41:18 AM 287 Views
No, it's part of the treaty. - 22/10/2010 02:02:42 AM 315 Views
no your mistake was misreading the clause - 21/10/2010 05:48:52 PM 296 Views
Very difficult not to lose my temper here. - 22/10/2010 01:39:21 AM 291 Views
Then you should argue it violate a treaty with a country that no longer exist - 22/10/2010 02:03:32 PM 293 Views
Noticed that, too, did you? - 22/10/2010 08:40:09 PM 413 Views
She's so... bewildered! - 20/10/2010 06:40:04 PM 298 Views
that is what I think when I read a lot of the responses here - 20/10/2010 07:44:40 PM 294 Views
Because the logical conclusion is obvious. - 21/10/2010 03:08:39 AM 298 Views
I think it is logical that it means what is say not want some want it to say - 21/10/2010 03:02:08 PM 292 Views
Nonsense. The nature of the nation was already changing in the first generation. - 22/10/2010 12:35:26 AM 398 Views
but it is an impulse that should be limited - 22/10/2010 06:05:10 PM 290 Views
For those who think O'Donnell is correct, even on a technicality: - 20/10/2010 10:49:40 PM 344 Views
exactly - 21/10/2010 03:26:00 AM 328 Views
She started out alright - 21/10/2010 02:32:01 PM 295 Views
or she wasn't really paying attnetion to him and was still trying to argue her first point - 21/10/2010 03:24:06 PM 444 Views
Lol. Bush-League. - 21/10/2010 04:39:43 PM 281 Views
at leas thten the haters were hating someone who mattered *NM* - 21/10/2010 05:50:03 PM 139 Views

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