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It's a valid argument. Joel Send a noteboard - 21/10/2010 03:26:46 PM
It was honestly one of the saddest things I've ever seen, and yet -- I laughed.

And to whatever wingnut is out there: don't chime in like Rush and O'Donnell's campaign noting that the constitution doesn't exactly say "separation of church and state". The people feebly defending her using this argument appear just as dense as the Republican nominee did. That's like the old uberliberal argument (which I do not support, being a big believer in an armed populace) that the second amendment doesn't support individual gun ownership because of the term "militia".

(edit: also, I like peaches).

And if it's a "long settled" legal principle, the Constitution still trumps however many courts have tried to make Jeffersons private correspondence Constitutional law. It's disingenuous and insulting to think she brought this up at random, totally ignorant of that classic Constitutional law debate. It's deliberately obtuse for a room full of lawyers to pretend that's not PRECISELY what she deliberately did, just so they can falsely accuse of her ignorance to justify mocking it. They are, to use a term they also know, begging the question, in this case "How can you be so stupid you don't know this?" when she very obviously does. It's not explicitly in the Constitution, which was carefully written by very smart lawyers. However many rulings have interpreted that language subsequently, those interpretations aren't an inherent part of the Constitution either, thus, like every other US law, they're subject to judicial review and reversal if found unconstitutional.
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"Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?" - 20/10/2010 12:33:05 AM 986 Views
You don't want her? - 20/10/2010 01:21:20 AM 544 Views
I have decided for the first time in my life to not vote this year. - 20/10/2010 01:27:13 AM 413 Views
Now there's an answer - 20/10/2010 01:47:28 AM 508 Views
Voting isn't the only way to contribute *NM* - 20/10/2010 02:42:10 AM 175 Views
And most of those posts are a guess at best. - 20/10/2010 03:02:04 AM 389 Views
Maybe you shouldn't be guessing then? - 20/10/2010 06:00:02 AM 382 Views
Issac has a point. - 20/10/2010 02:14:28 AM 388 Views
Can you not spoil your ballot? - 20/10/2010 10:19:54 AM 368 Views
Depends where you live. - 20/10/2010 01:50:30 PM 467 Views
I don't think so but an intentional no vote is just as valid as voting IMHO. *NM* - 21/10/2010 02:45:35 AM 174 Views
The difference is when they look at statistics - 21/10/2010 10:49:48 AM 359 Views
Exactly. - 21/10/2010 02:02:46 PM 496 Views
When you don't vote the bad guys win. That simple. - 20/10/2010 01:53:23 PM 509 Views
An intentional NO vote is just as valid as voting. - 21/10/2010 02:46:58 AM 396 Views
Apart from the fact there's no record of it whatsoever, yes. - 21/10/2010 01:37:46 PM 380 Views
She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... - 20/10/2010 01:25:43 AM 482 Views
Re: She is a buffoon of course. But what I am speechless about is... - 20/10/2010 01:35:48 AM 410 Views
Re: (meant to be under the main thread, but I can't move it) - 20/10/2010 02:42:23 AM 399 Views
It's a valid argument. - 21/10/2010 03:26:46 PM 366 Views
i feel kinda bad for her - 20/10/2010 03:31:03 AM 458 Views
What is odd about this is that everyone is used to the 'separation' idea that they don't bother to - 20/10/2010 06:44:48 AM 409 Views
Or, you know, the letters on the topic written by the people who drafted the Constitution *NM* - 20/10/2010 07:04:47 AM 222 Views
Those aren't the Constitution though. - 20/10/2010 12:39:41 PM 403 Views
which show they considered it but did not include it *NM* - 20/10/2010 06:14:37 PM 172 Views
Yep, this. *NM* - 20/10/2010 07:40:19 PM 199 Views
Personally, I think that's splitting hairs. *NM* - 20/10/2010 09:20:28 PM 175 Views
a direct reading is splitting hairs? - 20/10/2010 09:25:14 PM 376 Views
That's what lawyers like the Founding Fathers do. - 21/10/2010 02:56:36 PM 375 Views
I actually felt bad for her - 20/10/2010 10:46:57 AM 386 Views
She's right. - 20/10/2010 12:27:55 PM 506 Views
I'm less concerned about what she said than why she said it. *NM* - 20/10/2010 01:32:38 PM 270 Views
It is on youtube - 20/10/2010 02:40:12 PM 423 Views
Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:03:30 PM 433 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:32:02 PM 386 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:36:48 PM 354 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 03:53:46 PM 360 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 04:01:49 PM 443 Views
Re: Jesus Christ - 20/10/2010 05:12:28 PM 362 Views
Because she knew her audience, she expected them to know better, not be deliberately obtuse. - 21/10/2010 02:31:19 PM 402 Views
See Dreaded Anomaly's reply below. - 21/10/2010 03:03:02 PM 424 Views
Done. - 21/10/2010 04:50:52 PM 360 Views
Yet another reason you aren't a lawyer. *NM* - 21/10/2010 05:09:16 PM 135 Views
Because I don't accept arguments I consider unproven? - 21/10/2010 05:23:52 PM 408 Views
I see we have replaced the PDS with ODS - 20/10/2010 03:05:58 PM 359 Views
It only depends on just how finely one wants to split hairs. - 20/10/2010 04:02:28 PM 366 Views
no it depends how far you want to stretch the Constitution to say things it doesn't say - 20/10/2010 04:19:04 PM 363 Views
No it does not show that. - 21/10/2010 02:58:32 AM 358 Views
It doesn't matter what some of them may have wanted - 21/10/2010 02:54:54 PM 335 Views
Treaty of Tripoli through the Establishment clause fairly explicitly affirms this. Sorry. *NM* - 21/10/2010 03:56:09 AM 160 Views
OK which clause allows for amending the Constitution by treaty? I can't seem to find it *NM* - 21/10/2010 02:59:01 PM 148 Views
Supremacy clause, not establishment clause. My mistake. - 21/10/2010 05:07:18 PM 365 Views
Sorry, but the Treaty of Tripolis relevant section still seems like commentary. - 21/10/2010 05:18:00 PM 352 Views
This is quickly becoming infuriating. - 22/10/2010 01:41:18 AM 334 Views
No, it's part of the treaty. - 22/10/2010 02:02:42 AM 378 Views
no your mistake was misreading the clause - 21/10/2010 05:48:52 PM 351 Views
Very difficult not to lose my temper here. - 22/10/2010 01:39:21 AM 337 Views
Then you should argue it violate a treaty with a country that no longer exist - 22/10/2010 02:03:32 PM 344 Views
Noticed that, too, did you? - 22/10/2010 08:40:09 PM 467 Views
She's so... bewildered! - 20/10/2010 06:40:04 PM 359 Views
that is what I think when I read a lot of the responses here - 20/10/2010 07:44:40 PM 340 Views
Because the logical conclusion is obvious. - 21/10/2010 03:08:39 AM 349 Views
I think it is logical that it means what is say not want some want it to say - 21/10/2010 03:02:08 PM 347 Views
Nonsense. The nature of the nation was already changing in the first generation. - 22/10/2010 12:35:26 AM 453 Views
but it is an impulse that should be limited - 22/10/2010 06:05:10 PM 342 Views
For those who think O'Donnell is correct, even on a technicality: - 20/10/2010 10:49:40 PM 408 Views
exactly - 21/10/2010 03:26:00 AM 401 Views
She started out alright - 21/10/2010 02:32:01 PM 342 Views
or she wasn't really paying attnetion to him and was still trying to argue her first point - 21/10/2010 03:24:06 PM 508 Views
Lol. Bush-League. - 21/10/2010 04:39:43 PM 320 Views
at leas thten the haters were hating someone who mattered *NM* - 21/10/2010 05:50:03 PM 162 Views

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