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Well, I'm no seminarian, let alone a priest. Joel Send a noteboard - 13/11/2010 10:46:55 PM
Precisely; as long he's consistent I can respect his position whether or not I agree with it (conveniently, I do agree on these issues, but that has zero bearing on doctrine). What's frustrating is when good Catholic friends fall back on canon law to oppose abortion but completely ignore doctrine when defending capital punishment.
What Catholic doctrine is that, pray tell? The Pope's opinions are dogma, unless stated ex cathedra, and so far as I know, capital punishment is officially acceptable in principle.

It was only a couple months ago that I made a similar comment about dogma to a Catholic friend, only to be informed (basically) that dogma has equal standing with doctrine. I'm no priest, but since he has two brothers who are, I'm inclined to accept that assessment until I see a strong counter-argument. ;)
There's nothing wrong, in principle, with cherry picking which parts of Catholic doctrine you accept; there's even a word for it: Protestantism. ;)
Agreed. Nancy Pelosi & most of the Kennedys spring to mind here...
Some of us consider that a selling point.... ;)

Applying the same rule when it suits you and then ignoring it when it doesn't though is just basic hypocrisy, IMHO, and I believe most Christian denominations are pretty clear that's unacceptable.

Yeah, I seem to recall hearing something about how Pope Benedict gets annoyed at you US Catholics for precisely that reason. :P Yet it often seems to me that US Catholics do a better job than most at balancing conflicting obligations there. Bottom line is Pope Benedict has as much right as anyone to his opinion, though the Spanish government has an equal right to dismiss it. Famous people are still people.
Where's Franco II when you need one?

I can't think of a time when I or anyone other decent person needed the first one, so I'm not sure what we'd need with a second. If even Franco himself thought that a good idea the answer would be "reigning as Juan Carlos".
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This message last edited by Joel on 13/11/2010 at 10:47:51 PM
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Pope criticises gay marriage and abortion at cathedral consecration in Spain Stephen - 07/11/2010 08:18:06 PM 1619 Views
Can't wait to see what he says about sanctity of life next time he's in TX.... Joel - 07/11/2010 08:51:41 PM 1444 Views
You know, next time you tell people to not reopen certain debates... Legolas - 07/11/2010 09:28:21 PM 1290 Views
Does Spain distinguish between secular and sacramental marriage? Joel - 08/11/2010 01:10:47 AM 1201 Views
I would assume so, but can't say for sure. Legolas - 08/11/2010 10:27:01 AM 1115 Views
Well, that's the out then. Joel - 08/11/2010 11:00:14 PM 1181 Views
I looked it up for you both. Lews_TherinThelamon - 09/11/2010 08:38:55 PM 1125 Views
Pfft, if you trust the AMERICANS.... Joel - 09/11/2010 08:52:58 PM 1095 Views
I'm more looking forward to how the Texans affirm their support for the institution like Spain Cannoli - 09/11/2010 11:36:16 PM 1017 Views
The Catholic Church as a whole is opposed to capital punishment, and is fairly vocal about it. Legolas - 09/11/2010 11:55:18 PM 7431 Views
But that's personal issues of the clergy and whatnot involved. It's not doctrine Cannoli - 13/11/2010 02:20:38 AM 1094 Views
Spain doesn't have to deal with Fourteenth Amendments Equal Protection Clause. Joel - 10/11/2010 12:25:05 PM 1379 Views
Re: Spain doesn't have to deal with Fourteenth Amendments Equal Protection Clause. Cannoli - 13/11/2010 02:25:01 AM 1202 Views
Well, I'm no seminarian, let alone a priest. Joel - 13/11/2010 10:46:55 PM 1333 Views
Now that is the way to protest against the Pope. I wish people had thought of that here. *NM* Tim - 07/11/2010 09:02:51 PM 478 Views
The girl on girl kissing? Hell, yeah. TaskmasterJack - 07/11/2010 09:23:17 PM 1087 Views
Re: They're Europeans... Gaps - 07/11/2010 09:25:51 PM 1094 Views
you must have the Ugly lesbian Club in your area LadyLorraine - 07/11/2010 09:28:02 PM 1144 Views
Re: you must have the Ugly lesbian Club in your area TaskmasterJack - 07/11/2010 10:05:58 PM 1170 Views
she's lesbian. LadyLorraine - 07/11/2010 10:32:37 PM 1060 Views
Re: she's lesbian. TaskmasterJack - 08/11/2010 01:14:32 AM 1059 Views
lol sorry. I wasn't trying to come off all offended or like I was trying to spoil your joke LadyLorraine - 08/11/2010 01:26:54 AM 1079 Views
Referring to the 1930s and then talking of re-evangelization is a rather painful gaffe, I must say. Legolas - 07/11/2010 09:13:19 PM 1066 Views
dang. how big and fancy is this cathedral going to be? *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/11/2010 09:28:44 PM 573 Views
Huge, but mostly it's just been built very slowly for financial reasons. Legolas - 08/11/2010 10:23:32 AM 1176 Views
Uh yeah because Franco was worse than the communists.... Dragonsoul - 08/11/2010 03:43:55 AM 1064 Views
Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. Legolas - 08/11/2010 10:17:10 AM 1151 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. Dragonsoul - 08/11/2010 03:31:45 PM 1246 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. Legolas - 08/11/2010 10:28:01 PM 1120 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top. Camilla - 09/11/2010 10:24:38 AM 1382 Views
Ah, classic communist logic. Dragonsoul - 09/11/2010 08:17:48 PM 1051 Views
No Camilla - 09/11/2010 08:20:21 PM 1118 Views
Yeah, you pretty much can. Dragonsoul - 09/11/2010 11:09:57 PM 1111 Views
Re: Yeah, you pretty much can. Camilla - 09/11/2010 11:12:43 PM 1203 Views
It's the wrong question to ask, however. Joel - 13/11/2010 10:53:00 PM 1299 Views
I wouldn't expect anything less of him. *NM* everynametaken - 08/11/2010 02:28:36 AM 521 Views
Yeah, wouldn't it be hilariously awesome if he was, like, "Dudes, gay marriage ain't so bad." *NM* TaskmasterJack - 08/11/2010 02:58:48 AM 559 Views
Again: The Pope doesn't oppress anyone. Dragonsoul - 08/11/2010 03:40:19 AM 1171 Views
Awesome, except he's attacking people leaving, too. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/11/2010 04:30:02 AM 509 Views
I would too. Dragonsoul - 08/11/2010 05:08:37 AM 1065 Views
Yes, we know you would. *NM* jh - 08/11/2010 04:35:54 PM 557 Views
well fine, but you're telling them to leave, and attacking them for doing so. LadyLorraine - 08/11/2010 07:18:45 PM 967 Views
And here come the ad hominem attacks. Dragonsoul - 08/11/2010 09:32:23 PM 1116 Views
No, it's more like a boss firing an employee and then bitching about them leaving. *NM* LadyLorraine - 08/11/2010 10:43:56 PM 588 Views
Except we're not ordering them to leave. Dragonsoul - 09/11/2010 12:46:46 AM 1086 Views
So if you are Darth Vader, snoopcester - 09/11/2010 10:19:25 AM 1094 Views
I am, bitches. rebelaessedai - 09/11/2010 03:08:26 PM 1113 Views
Glad someone finally got the joke. Dragonsoul - 09/11/2010 08:18:25 PM 1343 Views
Did you hear the Church have stopped approving applications for people to officially leave, Stephen - 08/11/2010 07:13:15 PM 1076 Views
lol, so they're taking notes from the LDS church now? LadyLorraine - 08/11/2010 07:19:39 PM 985 Views
Not at all. Dragonsoul - 08/11/2010 09:29:29 PM 1074 Views
Yeah, I'm with Dragonsoul on this one beetnemesis - 08/11/2010 09:39:13 PM 964 Views
It makes a difference when they use your name as part of a statistic Inigo Montoya - 09/11/2010 12:28:51 AM 1318 Views
Re: Pope criticises gay marriage and abortion at cathedral consecration in Spain Macharius - 08/11/2010 05:24:46 PM 925 Views
Tainting Gaudi with that talk makes me a little sad Camilla - 08/11/2010 09:39:49 PM 956 Views
Agreed on both snoopcester - 09/11/2010 10:18:35 AM 1019 Views
Re: Gaps - 08/11/2010 11:06:50 PM 966 Views
This is funny. Lews_TherinThelamon - 09/11/2010 08:42:52 PM 977 Views
I often wonder the same thing, think about the sheer quantity of proven pedophile priests, then... Joel - 13/11/2010 11:07:39 PM 1056 Views
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