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Giffords' statements and Palins are matters of public record; they're indisputable. Joel Send a noteboard - 19/01/2011 11:34:53 PM
Again, perhaps Palin et al. didn't realize they accused Giffords herself of "blood libel" (that would be typical of them) but it doesn't alter the fact they did precisely that. Still, I appreciate you seeing the logic; I'd nearly given up in abject horror on anyone doing so. It's time to scale back the vitriol, and that includes Kos and their ilk, too, because if there's even a CHANCE it contributed to this tragedy it's not worth it. Even if this particular apolitical whackjob has never heard of Beck, Palin etc. (which is dubious to the point of absurdity) that would simply mean THIS shooting is unconnected; that so many liberals have been cautioning that the demagogues rhetoric would lead to murder made it certain that when the inevitable shootings occurred WHOEVER the target was would've cited SOMEONE who'd immediately be connected with it by the press.
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2150 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? Camilla - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 1010 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1175 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... Legolas - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1225 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". Joel - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1186 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already Isaac - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1546 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. Legolas - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1085 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either Isaac - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1112 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Legolas - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1102 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 1006 Views
Oh please don't you start to random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 948 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. Legolas - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1138 Views
it was used here and nobody commented random thoughts - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 1019 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here Isaac - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1065 Views
It's funny you should say that... Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1106 Views
Precisely: I noticed, but it hadn't become a rallying cry for "the real victim" (Palin). Joel - 19/01/2011 12:14:48 AM 1252 Views
I thought you were the real vicitim random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:49:06 PM 1185 Views
When and where did I say that? The ultimate victim is America, but six members of it just died. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:24:27 PM 914 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1089 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1124 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal Isaac - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1180 Views
I never said it was. Joel - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1274 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 947 Views
but is he accussed of being a tasteless moron who doesn't know what it means? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:28:03 PM 992 Views
I don't know, if I have to judge him based on that one article, then tasteless moron, absolutely. Legolas - 19/01/2011 06:14:43 PM 1110 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1094 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. Legolas - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1069 Views
The peole who called her stupid for using the term didn't know it was so wide spread either random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:33:19 PM 972 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1151 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1192 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. Joel - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1337 Views
That means precisely nothing Isaac - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1040 Views
It means everything. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1285 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic Chas - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 890 Views
There are two points: Joel - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1099 Views
I don't agree, but I understand. *NM* Chas - 19/01/2011 10:14:13 PM 519 Views
Giffords' statements and Palins are matters of public record; they're indisputable. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:34:53 PM 1080 Views
I must say, if more people on both sides could say that we'd all be better for it. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:32:55 AM 1109 Views
Re: It means everything. Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 924 Views
That's simply illogical. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1307 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1174 Views
Your inability/unwillingness to follow basic and clearly delineated logic is not my failing. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:19:31 AM 1039 Views
I admit I can't follow gnome logic *NM* random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:50:22 AM 511 Views
I demonstrated the connection, whether or not you choose to look the other way. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:28 PM 1070 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1124 Views
Giffords said Palins crosshairs imagery would have "consequences"; Palin calls the suggestion libel. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:54:45 PM 1013 Views
yes but the only consequences is liberals using them to slander Palin random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:58:35 PM 1091 Views
I read Toms reply; I don't think he exactly vindicated your position, nor meant to do so. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:52:37 AM 1405 Views
It was an example of blaming the victim, a phrase you keep misusing random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:28:21 PM 1051 Views
I thought you said only liberals blinded by political bias committed that grave sin. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:47:09 PM 1095 Views
so in other words you again missed the point random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 1031 Views
Well, one of us did. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:24:35 PM 1161 Views
so lets be clear do you or don't you understand what it means to "blame the vicitm"? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 10:03:48 PM 786 Views
I understand it well; can we be equally clear you say the victim here is Palin? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:44:08 PM 1231 Views
So I am a little confused on something... MightyYT - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1171 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this Joel - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1311 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... MightyYT - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1044 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Joel - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1062 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Isaac - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1126 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 934 Views
No, they don't Isaac - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1135 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1238 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said Isaac - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1069 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) Joel - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1123 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity Isaac - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1206 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? Joel - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1184 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 1011 Views
I thought waterboarding was OK and any suggestion to the contrary was terrorist sympathizing. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:54:05 PM 948 Views
way to dodge the point again random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:34:33 PM 987 Views
Do you have an example of a credible threat of injury to a Congressman, or calls for one? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:02:53 PM 1049 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* Isaac - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 1030 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. Joel - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1045 Views
There is no point Isaac - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1081 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. Joel - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1334 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1351 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1094 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 1014 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1036 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 1024 Views
That first line is says it all. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1106 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1216 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". Joel - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1103 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1108 Views
YOU are cherry picking. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1048 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... Shannow - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1329 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1156 Views
Yeah, your first was better Isaac - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 973 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1121 Views
And I call bullshit Cannoli - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1251 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1211 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? Shannow - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1105 Views
don't get ti doesn't matter who is to blame it just matters if they can use it *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:11:09 PM 515 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1189 Views
Then why are you even here? I pretty much agree with you entirely and I'm fairly liberal. *NM* Elaine - 18/01/2011 01:16:33 PM 599 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. Tom - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1053 Views
Pretty much. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1114 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* Tashmere - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 510 Views
I didn't realize someone had, but it appears a militia leader was responsible (shocking, I know). Joel - 17/01/2011 07:04:08 AM 1061 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 482 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 1006 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 523 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1196 Views
Took you this long, huh? Macharius - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 945 Views
I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM 1284 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 977 Views
I'm just curious. callandor1000 - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 935 Views
Re: I'm just curious. Camilla - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1091 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 966 Views
like I said a matter of faith random thoughts - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 949 Views
I find it interesting... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1103 Views
I mention her looks solely because... callandor1000 - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 991 Views
Had that convo with the cab driver on the way home from a New Years party. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:42:07 PM 1240 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). Joel - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1157 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity random thoughts - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 986 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? Joel - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1033 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 965 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1073 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't random thoughts - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 872 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. Joel - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 969 Views
only in your does the connection exisit random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 1009 Views
No. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1089 Views
dude wake up random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1218 Views
Fine, I have no problem dropping the "right" label in my condemnations. Joel - 20/01/2011 10:39:34 PM 1223 Views
So in your opinion... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 961 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? Joel - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 1006 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? Cannoli - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1306 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. Joel - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1135 Views
The left are the ones storing up hate with their pathetic slaner random thoughts - 18/01/2011 07:53:23 PM 1080 Views
At least 95% of the blame is Loughners; he's a nut, but that doesn't exonerate the demagogues. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:24:11 PM 1164 Views
0% belongs to political rhetoric from the right random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:47:56 PM 951 Views
Uh huh; it's absurd to mention right wing rhetoric when left wing rhetoric is the OBVIOUS culprit Joel - 19/01/2011 02:59:41 PM 995 Views
No leftist rhetoric? You just called a bunch of people 'dangeorus lunatics' Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:37:54 PM 944 Views
Rhetoric is one thing, but I didn't use violent imagery, did I? Joel - 20/01/2011 01:40:14 AM 1275 Views
no but the democratic party used very similar images in the same state random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:41:19 PM 1018 Views
It's news to me, but I condemn all violent inflammatory imagery and rhetoric. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:13:18 PM 980 Views
it was the national democrats random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:32:01 PM 1083 Views
Then that's equally dangerous and reprehensible and more reason to loathe the DLC and DCCC. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:49:08 PM 1348 Views
The right is not the ones claiming rhetoric is the issue random thoughts - 19/01/2011 03:58:39 PM 990 Views
"WE aren't doing it, except for when we are". Admission of guilt is a poor defense. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:16 AM 964 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. Jacob - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1142 Views
Exactly. *NM* Avendesora - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 563 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 883 Views
You missed the point, obviously. Jacob - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 990 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1068 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated Isaac - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 912 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* Jacob - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 543 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1150 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. Camilla - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1174 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1216 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. dart_board - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1161 Views
We can debate whether it's coincidental, but the connections are documented fact Joel - 22/01/2011 08:17:24 PM 1137 Views
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