Active Users:443 Time:18/09/2025 04:03:31 AM
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM
Because based on the evidence, a jihadist shooter would have as much a claim to have been influenced by Palin as Loughner has.

Don't you get it? Loughner isn't aligned to Palin's worldview at all, as far as all evidence has been able to establish.

In fact, he is probably closer to Gifford's point of view than Palin's.

Loughner was no more influenced by Palin's "rhetoric" than that guy from the Fort Hood shooting was.

Seriously, we're still doing this? Loughner was more liberal than conservative even though he read Ayn Rand (whose name is born by the new Tea Party Senator from KY), Hitler and Nietzsche (whose heir Hitler claimed, rightly or not, to be) before exercising his Second Amendment rights against one of the most liberal Congressmen in the state that gave us "extremism in the defence of liberty is no vice", all because of his anti-government paranoia. But because he also happened to read Marx he's somehow a liberal despite, lessee... SEVEN examples of conservative beliefs. Does he espouse seven liberal principles? I'll give you hatred of religion, but that's it.

I agree that he's apolitical, but he is closer to the right than the left, and was ripe for all the "Obama's a madrasa trained terrorist born in Kenya, not HI, and must be stopped at any cost to save America" BS constantly spewing from far right demagogues since before he took the Oath of Office. To say Loughner maintained a FB account (much like Palin) and another on MySpace in between buying guns and buying conspiracies but was somehow oblivious to the kind of paranoid militant rhetoric with which he would've been right at home is rather difficult to believe. It hasn't been proven, but stop kidding yourself, man. Again, let's put the safety of our fellow citizens and welfare of our country ahead of partisan loyalty.

Oh, and I happened to be living about 50 miles from Ft. Hood when that shooting occurred, mere months after someone flew a plane into an IRS building 30 miles from me in the other direction, so let's not go there. The former was a right wing fundie who happened to believe the US government at war with the Muslim rather than Christian God, and the other espoused both left and right wing principles but, IMHO, tended to hold more liberal ones. Both believed themselves wrongfully persecuted, but the first has been established to be a religious fanatic and I'm aware of no links between the latter and far left demagoguery (though he's still a liberal guilty of murder in my book, and none of his stated motives justifies that).
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This message last edited by Joel on 20/01/2011 at 03:12:22 AM
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2122 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 978 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1151 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1196 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1141 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1511 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1054 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1082 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1069 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 975 Views
Oh please don't you start to - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 923 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1110 Views
it was used here and nobody commented - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 992 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1038 Views
It's funny you should say that... - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1079 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1059 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1098 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1151 Views
I never said it was. - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1242 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 919 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1066 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1038 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1127 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1160 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1308 Views
That means precisely nothing - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1011 Views
It means everything. - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1255 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 859 Views
There are two points: - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1067 Views
Re: It means everything. - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 894 Views
That's simply illogical. - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1277 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1147 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1094 Views
So I am a little confused on something... - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1142 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1279 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1015 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1032 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1091 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 905 Views
No, they don't - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1109 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1184 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1040 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1075 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1174 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1155 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 999 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1018 Views
There is no point - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1053 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1303 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1324 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1060 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 987 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1007 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 997 Views
That first line is says it all. - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1080 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1187 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1076 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1079 Views
YOU are cherry picking. - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1019 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1293 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1127 Views
Yeah, your first was better - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 936 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1087 Views
And I call bullshit - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1219 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1182 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1070 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1160 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1023 Views
Pretty much. - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1085 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 496 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 465 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 972 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 508 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1164 Views
Took you this long, huh? - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 916 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 947 Views
I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 904 Views
Re: I'm just curious. - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1060 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 933 Views
like I said a matter of faith - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 920 Views
I find it interesting... - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1075 Views
I mention her looks solely because... - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 958 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1128 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 949 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1004 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 937 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1047 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 842 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 938 Views
only in your does the connection exisit - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 981 Views
No. - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1058 Views
dude wake up - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1189 Views
So in your opinion... - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 932 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 974 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1266 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1102 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1112 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 551 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 853 Views
You missed the point, obviously. - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 959 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1040 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 883 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 532 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1118 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1145 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1186 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1131 Views

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