Active Users:1064 Time:02/11/2025 07:08:19 PM
No, it's very much a feature, and that's coming from someone who shares your preference and reasons. Joel Send a noteboard - 11/05/2011 09:44:51 PM
Nesting allows a one on one intimacy between individual posts and within subthreads that many (almost certainly most) wotmaniacs/RAFOlk have come to know and love. Ultimately, I don't think it really is easier to avoid tangents with paging (not that it's HARD, just relatively harder compared to nesting), actually, because with nesting you only see the title rather than having to scan over the whole post. It probably encourages things like threadjacks because people don't have to worry about diverting the main thread. And the fact is Ben went to a lot of time and trouble to create a RAFO interface as much like the one some members have enjoyed and felt at home with since 1999. It would be wrong to take that away from them just because a (VERY) small minority prefers another format (and I promise you it will never happen). People prefer nesting for valid reasons. That you and I don't value those reasons much doesn't diminish their value to those who do, any more than the things we value highly in paged threads is diminished by others disinterest.

I think I understand the animosity to change a little too well. I notice you referred to nesting as "the only thing that differentiates this site from other WoT sites". Drop the "other"; when RAFO was only a suggestion on the wotmania CMB the group decided it would NOT be a WoT site, and it isn't. I (accurately or not) perceive the same sentiment in the widespread distaste for WoT as in that for paging. This is how a lot of people want it, they fought hard to get it and they won't give it up any easier. Put yourself in their shoes though: Why should they give up a unique part of a site they've enjoyed for a decade, in many cases the reason they CHOSE that site and made it their own, just so people with plenty of other sites whose formats suit them MIGHT join? A fair number of people argued for and against a gradual move away from WoT (though a clear majority argued for it); the debate over nesting was literally me and one or two others overrun by the rest of the site, which is why I didn't debate it long: I knew how it would go so I was merely stating my position for the record. I wasn't exaggerating before: Those of us who argued for paged threads were literally 2% of those responding. Why on Earth would Ben or anyone in their right mind make a change 98% of the site vehemently opposes just to please the other 2%? Why would anyone want to join a site where that can happen? No, they're not going to agree with our arguments pages are better than trees because, for them, they manifestly aren't.

A compromise allowing both is not just the only fair solution, it's the only POSSIBLE solution for you and I. I want paged threads and would never use nesting again given the option, but I'd resist any attempt to deny the majority nesting ardently desired for very valid reasons as strongly as they would. As I said earlier, the only thing less fair than the majority imposing a format you and I detest on us would be us imposing one they equally detest on them. If the goal is truly making RAFO better and more inviting rather than suiting it to one groups preference, the ideal solution is one with as many preferences as possible, so no one is forced to use a format they dislike. We needn't choose between nesting and paging, and would be wrong to do so, whichever came out on top; more practically, nesting would always win, so if you don't want it to continue being forced on us, seek a compromise.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 11/05/2011 at 09:50:27 PM
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Wishlist - 09/05/2011 08:26:23 AM 6156 Views
Chat. - 09/05/2011 08:41:32 AM 1923 Views
seconded (the message content) *NM* - 09/05/2011 08:57:31 AM 992 Views
Hmm. - 09/05/2011 10:22:27 AM 1994 Views
I wondered if you remembered that. - 10/05/2011 12:04:31 AM 5517 Views
I thought we already had one - 09/05/2011 11:45:34 AM 1775 Views
That is essentially Goodreads. *NM* - 09/05/2011 02:42:06 PM 950 Views
Organisation - 09/05/2011 12:52:25 PM 1689 Views
Sort of. - 09/05/2011 01:09:12 PM 1466 Views
Excellent - 09/05/2011 02:57:35 PM 1556 Views
Also - 09/05/2011 01:59:35 PM 1694 Views
Re: Also - 09/05/2011 04:29:33 PM 1705 Views
Wotmania content (FAQ, Theory post, personality test, etc.) and Chat *NM* - 09/05/2011 02:53:08 PM 1020 Views
Also agree here, at least where intellectual property isn't an issue. - 09/05/2011 06:41:27 PM 1697 Views
Nobody votes in those polls anyway. *NM* - 09/05/2011 07:09:23 PM 910 Views
149 people would disagree with you. - 09/05/2011 08:10:24 PM 1829 Views
Re: Wotmania content (FAQ, Theory post, personality test, etc.) and Chat - 22/07/2011 05:35:32 AM 1616 Views
Rules, Help, and Statistics? *NM* - 09/05/2011 05:50:25 PM 986 Views
+∞ - 09/05/2011 06:14:23 PM 1701 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 09/05/2011 08:00:06 PM 903 Views
+1 to statistics. I miss those, oddly enough. - 10/05/2011 05:14:26 PM 1694 Views
writer's board!!! pleeeese *NM* - 09/05/2011 06:26:28 PM 947 Views
A new messageboard style - 09/05/2011 06:49:10 PM 1961 Views
I hate other bulletin board styles. Hate. - 09/05/2011 06:55:31 PM 1866 Views
- 09/05/2011 07:14:56 PM 1747 Views
Well. I half agree with that. - 09/05/2011 08:35:41 PM 1773 Views
Help thing? - 09/05/2011 09:55:18 PM 1698 Views
Yes. The Help link on every page which currently goes nowhere. *NM* - 09/05/2011 10:21:09 PM 1007 Views
Agreed. So very, very agreed. *NM* - 09/05/2011 07:59:18 PM 933 Views
phpBB has an "ignore" option - 09/05/2011 10:50:39 PM 2830 Views
The thing is its the fun awesome people who do the tangents - 09/05/2011 10:58:42 PM 1765 Views
1996 is over - 09/05/2011 11:52:48 PM 1623 Views
THe option to show posts with newest replies first allows for that - 09/05/2011 11:57:57 PM 1635 Views
a few things - 10/05/2011 12:05:50 AM 1607 Views
I'm surprised to have gotten this strong of a reaction - 10/05/2011 12:30:21 AM 1646 Views
For what it's worth - 10/05/2011 12:45:45 AM 1841 Views
Re: For what it's worth - 10/05/2011 08:29:08 AM 1666 Views
It's possible - 10/05/2011 11:45:26 AM 1735 Views
Re: It's possible - 10/05/2011 12:02:51 PM 1692 Views
No, I got it - 10/05/2011 01:03:59 PM 1637 Views
Re: No, I got it - 10/05/2011 01:14:01 PM 1759 Views
Re: No, I got it - 10/05/2011 04:42:57 PM 1652 Views
Re: No, I got it - 10/05/2011 04:52:06 PM 1616 Views
Yes - 10/05/2011 05:10:07 PM 1670 Views
This site has what, 10% or so percent of wotmania's activity in its heyday? - 10/05/2011 10:45:51 PM 1839 Views
Tell me, why are you still here? - 10/05/2011 10:48:44 PM 1628 Views
I don't know, sometimes - 10/05/2011 11:19:14 PM 1549 Views
I used to spend quite a lot of time on other sites. - 10/05/2011 12:14:09 PM 1627 Views
Which type of sites? - 10/05/2011 01:06:32 PM 1522 Views
Re: Which type of sites? - 12/05/2011 06:22:32 AM 1655 Views
My experience has been different - 12/05/2011 09:28:28 PM 1654 Views
The style is why this place is like it is - 10/05/2011 08:27:46 AM 1649 Views
Re: 1996 is over - 12/05/2011 06:15:57 AM 1658 Views
*NM* - 11/05/2011 06:36:55 AM 894 Views
I actually had no idea to whom this response was directed. - 11/05/2011 07:10:32 PM 1582 Views
A trick - 11/05/2011 08:20:31 PM 1740 Views
That does work, yeah; just forgot about it. *NM* - 11/05/2011 08:54:32 PM 890 Views
I very much agree. *NM* - 13/05/2011 10:33:28 PM 915 Views
I disagree here - 09/05/2011 06:58:40 PM 1599 Views
No. Just no. *NM* - 09/05/2011 08:02:16 PM 1078 Views
I think forcing either style on anyone tends to discourage membership from those who want the other. - 09/05/2011 08:23:13 PM 1752 Views
This is a good alternative, - 09/05/2011 08:39:07 PM 1768 Views
Not really. It would have to be idiot proof. - 09/05/2011 08:53:50 PM 1564 Views
Thanks; you can't please everyone, but this seems like the closest we'll get. - 09/05/2011 10:25:00 PM 2111 Views
Nice assumption - 09/05/2011 10:32:35 PM 1644 Views
If it became a habit it would be annoying, yeah, but is there reason to think it would? - 10/05/2011 01:33:50 AM 1683 Views
Human nature - 10/05/2011 11:21:05 AM 1736 Views
If RAFO wants to attract new members.... - 09/05/2011 10:55:36 PM 1745 Views
You can guarantee a large amount of people will leave if that vile phpBB type board is introduced - 09/05/2011 11:01:43 PM 1743 Views
Yes - 09/05/2011 11:08:42 PM 1658 Views
I see it the opposite way - 10/05/2011 12:04:42 AM 1821 Views
Re: I see it the opposite way - 10/05/2011 12:31:19 AM 1569 Views
Valid points. - 10/05/2011 03:10:45 AM 1583 Views
I agree. - 27/05/2011 01:37:50 PM 1618 Views
While I agree with everyone who hates BB boards... - 16/05/2011 06:26:04 AM 1825 Views
I like the slider from nested to pages, yeah, thanks. - 16/05/2011 06:54:02 AM 1714 Views
Oh, my - 16/05/2011 07:10:17 AM 1819 Views
They're dumping the blue jerseys for home games. - 16/05/2011 07:49:04 AM 1713 Views
Re: They're dumping the blue jerseys for home games. - 16/05/2011 07:58:55 AM 1635 Views
Re: They're dumping the blue jerseys for home games. - 16/05/2011 09:22:44 PM 1769 Views
Re: They're dumping the blue jerseys for home games. - 18/05/2011 09:21:13 AM 1659 Views
I'd probably like it better if I weren't such an awful hitter. - 18/05/2011 11:20:06 PM 1653 Views
I can't throw, hit, or run - 21/05/2011 07:03:53 PM 1774 Views
I was sure I'd responded to this; sorry for the delay. - 22/07/2011 04:14:11 PM 1702 Views
I adore our set up. - 09/05/2011 11:05:34 PM 1700 Views
I feel a little less adoration =P - 10/05/2011 12:11:37 AM 1836 Views
see, and I think it enhances my appreciation of the posts. - 10/05/2011 12:15:21 AM 1575 Views
Explanation, please. - 10/05/2011 05:50:20 PM 1701 Views
This is my experience as well. *NM* - 10/05/2011 10:31:49 PM 815 Views
I love that there are many examples of why this board style is a good thing in this thread. - 10/05/2011 10:59:03 PM 1650 Views
it's a bug, not a feature - 11/05/2011 06:45:29 PM 1711 Views
No, it's very much a feature, and that's coming from someone who shares your preference and reasons. - 11/05/2011 09:44:51 PM 1738 Views
More than 3 reasons. - 12/05/2011 06:37:59 AM 1627 Views
I hate weighing in on these arguments. But fine. - 12/05/2011 07:08:46 AM 1802 Views
Well put - 12/05/2011 08:20:18 AM 1809 Views
My filter is broken then. - 11/05/2011 09:02:07 AM 1621 Views
One comment that hasn't been raised yet. - 11/05/2011 10:41:25 PM 1664 Views
I agree, I hate this old MBstyle. Its time to leave the dark ages. *NM* - 13/05/2011 03:01:50 PM 927 Views
Your brain is just addled by hormones. - 13/05/2011 03:14:27 PM 1650 Views
Hva addled hjernen min? - 13/05/2011 04:36:14 PM 1643 Views
Re: Hva addled hjernen min? - 13/05/2011 05:03:19 PM 1651 Views
Jeg tenkte så. - 13/05/2011 05:55:08 PM 1696 Views
Du er amerikaner - 13/05/2011 06:21:39 PM 1641 Views
Du er slem. - 13/05/2011 08:50:37 PM 1766 Views
You must be new here. - 29/05/2011 06:57:19 AM 1717 Views
Acknowledgement of me as your ruler *NM* - 09/05/2011 07:12:31 PM 896 Views
I'd be happy to carve equally spaced lines into you. - 09/05/2011 07:16:37 PM 1661 Views
I actually did laugh out loud at that one - 10/05/2011 04:00:24 PM 1757 Views
"JESUS is our only ruler!" - 10/05/2011 03:00:01 AM 1486 Views
Are you suggesting Ben is the second coming? *NM* - 10/05/2011 01:16:17 PM 945 Views
He's the harbinger. - 11/05/2011 05:32:19 PM 1671 Views
IRV is terrible, and is the worst option other than FPTP - 10/05/2011 06:07:27 PM 1580 Views
But Borda isn't Condorcet complete either. - 11/05/2011 08:45:05 AM 1715 Views
Hm. Coulda sworn it was. My mistake. - 11/05/2011 11:43:43 PM 1671 Views
NP, happens. - 12/05/2011 01:09:18 AM 1661 Views
Smiley Reduction/Alteration? - 09/05/2011 07:30:25 PM 1439 Views
Also with quotes and close brackets. <---- This is WEIRD. - 09/05/2011 07:34:13 PM 1596 Views
That is quite possibly my biggest annoyance with the whole site. - 09/05/2011 07:40:48 PM 1585 Views
complete agreement - 09/05/2011 10:58:32 PM 1488 Views
Re: Also with quotes and close brackets. <---- This is WEIRD. - 10/05/2011 02:53:50 AM 1624 Views
My name is Tom and I approve these suggestions. - 10/05/2011 02:14:33 PM 1606 Views
How about a music MB? - 09/05/2011 08:00:33 PM 1677 Views
I think it wouldn't be used much. - 09/05/2011 08:08:52 PM 1633 Views
Yeah a post on the Com MB every other week works just fine. *NM* - 09/05/2011 08:16:49 PM 947 Views
Or turn the TV & Movie board into a pop culture board we'd just need to get rid of the rubbish admin - 09/05/2011 09:13:41 PM 1717 Views
Stop being a brat! - 09/05/2011 09:57:35 PM 1743 Views
But it is Jens! - 09/05/2011 10:16:23 PM 1686 Views
aka Best admin ever. - 09/05/2011 10:28:40 PM 1605 Views
aka Best admin ever. - 09/05/2011 10:28:40 PM 1572 Views
No, just the most double posting one - 09/05/2011 10:29:54 PM 1737 Views
Yup, sorry other admins. - 10/05/2011 01:42:45 AM 1733 Views
"Oh. my. fucking. god." - 09/05/2011 10:29:17 PM 1729 Views
Re: I think it wouldn't be used much. - 09/05/2011 08:36:05 PM 1717 Views
i agree - 10/05/2011 02:58:52 PM 1601 Views
Re: i agree - 10/05/2011 03:56:36 PM 1375 Views
Also - 10/05/2011 03:58:56 PM 1679 Views
collapsing of extended thread nests - 09/05/2011 11:09:23 PM 1621 Views
^This. *NM* - 12/05/2011 07:45:46 PM 924 Views
Thirded *NM* - 27/05/2011 01:39:44 PM 881 Views
Quick question, how many users are registered here? *NM* - 10/05/2011 01:38:37 AM 1713 Views
I think the search page User List gives a good estimate (~725 total, counts/MB inside). - 10/05/2011 02:44:50 AM 1747 Views
It doesn't - 13/05/2011 10:29:32 AM 1742 Views
PINK!! - 10/05/2011 03:27:35 AM 1633 Views
Anyone else notice that everyone replying participates on the book, tv + movies and comm boards - 10/05/2011 02:18:08 PM 1676 Views
Indeed. *NM* - 10/05/2011 03:53:23 PM 858 Views
It doesn't help that we make them feel like a blemish on the RAFO scene. - 10/05/2011 04:45:33 PM 1665 Views
But they are - 10/05/2011 04:53:26 PM 1612 Views
I agree. - 10/05/2011 11:10:03 PM 1731 Views
I've seen most people who've replied post on the WoTMB at least occasionally. - 11/05/2011 11:26:44 PM 1658 Views
You are clearly wrong. - 12/05/2011 04:58:34 PM 1467 Views
Its prime ended before the split? Bah, you old geezers always hassle us kids for livin' our life! - 12/05/2011 07:32:02 PM 1675 Views
Nah. - 16/05/2011 08:32:39 PM 1626 Views
Hard to imagine what that must've been like. - 18/05/2011 11:04:57 PM 1689 Views
Report post, moderation powers to all boards, spoiler tags, NM bug, bug submitter's name displayed. - 10/05/2011 05:59:58 PM 1453 Views
I disagree - 10/05/2011 10:34:54 PM 1694 Views
Re: your suggestions - 10/05/2011 11:03:00 PM 1526 Views
Re: your suggestions - 11/05/2011 01:37:34 AM 1702 Views
Re: your suggestions - 11/05/2011 08:24:38 AM 1489 Views
It's just that... - 11/05/2011 06:04:46 PM 1612 Views
Agreed on all points *NM* - 11/05/2011 05:54:52 PM 904 Views
Whoa. You can change quote styles? News to me. *NM* - 11/05/2011 10:02:10 PM 884 Views
It's all there, in the help section at the top of the board. - 12/05/2011 04:50:44 PM 1570 Views
Shush, you. *NM* - 13/05/2011 08:56:05 AM 906 Views
The next time we meet up - 13/05/2011 09:19:01 AM 1612 Views
Anything would be better than nothing. - 13/05/2011 05:48:03 PM 1621 Views
Regarding the forum style - 10/05/2011 11:17:50 PM 2137 Views
+3 *NM* - 10/05/2011 11:35:10 PM 910 Views
Look here! - 11/05/2011 01:25:25 AM 1588 Views
+100 *NM* - 11/05/2011 01:59:30 AM 813 Views
I think that sounds like an excellent middle ground! *NM* - 11/05/2011 04:22:12 AM 889 Views
I agree with the agreement. - 11/05/2011 05:02:44 AM 5074 Views
That sounds an acceptable compromise to me - 11/05/2011 05:32:43 PM 1550 Views
Just an observation/question about post-clicking - 11/05/2011 05:42:30 PM 1672 Views
Re: Just an observation/question about post-clicking - 11/05/2011 06:06:24 PM 1708 Views
Yes. Though it's not just laziness. - 11/05/2011 06:20:50 PM 1512 Views
It's more than laziness, yes. - 11/05/2011 07:53:52 PM 1639 Views
Try laying off the refresh button if you can help it. *NM* - 11/05/2011 08:52:56 PM 942 Views
It's a high - 11/05/2011 10:28:02 PM 1472 Views
Sorry, internet keeps disconnecting when I hit "submit". - 11/05/2011 11:31:52 PM 1688 Views
I was mostly being a smart-ass about the laziness thing. - 12/05/2011 05:16:40 PM 1580 Views
Cool. - 12/05/2011 07:20:49 PM 1598 Views
I used to have to do that - 16/05/2011 08:26:47 AM 2263 Views
Yeah, that sounds familiar. - 16/05/2011 09:15:56 PM 1701 Views
Active Users: 51 - 11/05/2011 01:19:25 AM 1644 Views
Also - 11/05/2011 04:36:17 AM 1674 Views
OoOoo... I like this. *NM* - 11/05/2011 06:25:20 AM 928 Views
Re: Active Users: 51 - 14/06/2011 12:11:43 AM 1553 Views
I wonder if there is a way to make the Search function work... - 11/05/2011 09:56:54 AM 1543 Views
There is an easy fix for that. - 11/05/2011 06:09:10 PM 1661 Views
It's less about mistakes... - 12/05/2011 08:31:59 AM 1596 Views
- 12/05/2011 10:27:57 AM 1623 Views
Yusssss!!1! *NM* - 12/05/2011 09:58:53 PM 880 Views
An option to not have to see those damn smileys - 11/05/2011 02:24:47 PM 1691 Views
Another thing! - 11/05/2011 05:35:10 PM 1648 Views
For the Quickpolls - 11/05/2011 10:22:23 PM 1625 Views
Good idea. - 11/05/2011 11:30:41 PM 1657 Views
Writing page Writing page WRITING PAGE! *NM* - 12/05/2011 01:15:32 AM 961 Views
Links in posts - can they not take us to a new page but to a new tab/window, please? - 12/05/2011 05:49:23 PM 1721 Views
Happens in Chrome and Firefox, too. *NM* - 12/05/2011 06:13:20 PM 896 Views
It's not, but a simple right-click and select "Open in new tab" does the job in FF, at least. - 12/05/2011 10:40:27 PM 1666 Views
Clicking links with your scroll wheel opens them in a new tab. *NM* - 12/05/2011 11:32:29 PM 932 Views
As does CTRL-click. *NM* - 13/05/2011 07:14:56 AM 1135 Views
I'd like to know when the last post in a thread was. - 13/05/2011 01:14:02 AM 1656 Views
Like back on wotmania? - 13/05/2011 09:02:33 AM 1611 Views
More references of MGB being the badass he is. *NM* - 13/05/2011 04:57:59 AM 948 Views
some kind of "reply all" feature? - 13/05/2011 06:35:15 AM 1658 Views
Two things: facebook and searching within a post - 13/05/2011 03:07:37 PM 1626 Views
I agree. Not the facebook nonsense, but... - 13/05/2011 03:15:24 PM 1676 Views
+1, especially the FB part. - 13/05/2011 04:46:05 PM 1497 Views
I can add a comment for Facebook liking. - 13/05/2011 06:48:16 PM 1884 Views
Maybe it's another IE vs. Firefox thing. - 13/05/2011 08:52:53 PM 1764 Views
I use chrome - 13/05/2011 09:47:06 PM 1578 Views
Also, re: quickpoll - 15/05/2011 04:18:04 PM 1601 Views
and I'd love to be able to "like" it to facebook *NM* - 15/05/2011 04:55:46 PM 844 Views
Ick... you said the f-word. *NM* - 15/05/2011 08:23:16 PM 888 Views
We have to. - 15/05/2011 08:37:01 PM 1662 Views
Make me an Admin! - 13/05/2011 04:17:59 PM 1689 Views
Of what, exactly? You have no discernible skills beside account corruption. *NM* - 13/05/2011 06:27:51 PM 970 Views
I demand silence from the peanut gallery! *NM* - 15/05/2011 02:25:52 AM 866 Views
~silence granted, throws peanuts~ *NM* - 15/05/2011 07:39:50 PM 835 Views
OFF with your HEAD! *NM* - 16/05/2011 08:06:27 PM 837 Views
Since I don't think anyone else has mentioned it here - HTML - 15/05/2011 09:00:39 PM 1764 Views
Mapthis made something like this. - 15/05/2011 09:25:59 PM 1533 Views
He did. I'd forgotten that - 15/05/2011 09:27:39 PM 1626 Views
WYSIWYG! *NM* - 27/05/2011 02:25:49 PM 943 Views
is inherently evil. *NM* - 27/05/2011 02:40:51 PM 819 Views
...and yet inherently accessible to the non-geek masses - 30/05/2011 02:34:58 AM 1635 Views
As I said... - 30/05/2011 08:55:32 AM 1614 Views
A redesigned home page! - 22/05/2011 04:26:27 AM 1643 Views
This isn't particularly helpful. - 30/05/2011 11:28:46 PM 1691 Views
I'm helpful - 04/07/2011 12:40:08 PM 1748 Views
Mobile version *NM* - 02/06/2011 12:42:25 AM 951 Views
Make quote options more prominent - 13/06/2011 02:21:36 PM 1495 Views
The ability to block someone on a certain board? - 17/06/2011 06:48:41 PM 1615 Views
I would like notification when a premium account downgrades - 18/06/2011 10:42:56 AM 1683 Views
We've already got the Facebook "Like" button, however - 26/06/2011 12:06:51 AM 1644 Views
Unhh... Privacy statement? - 19/07/2011 06:14:49 PM 1529 Views
"Rules" would be a better place, IMHO; we're told at least one of those links should soon work. - 22/07/2011 04:08:54 PM 1559 Views
Thanks for the response / comment, Josh - 23/07/2011 08:59:02 AM 1516 Views
I assume it just means people are too busy working on the site to answer immediately. - 23/07/2011 02:06:48 PM 1540 Views
or at all? - 02/08/2011 12:44:15 PM 1643 Views
Hey, you're preaching to the choir on that one. - 02/08/2011 01:40:43 PM 1782 Views
Admins should be able to move Posts into an already existing thread - 20/07/2011 02:52:05 PM 1591 Views
+1. *NM* - 20/07/2011 03:29:57 PM 845 Views
the ability to empty your outbox - 30/07/2011 04:19:17 PM 1625 Views

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