Active Users:394 Time:13/05/2025 03:20:21 PM
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM
Euclid's Axioms on Geometry are also 2000+ years old, so are Aesop's Fables, the only reason a book or work's age is relevant is that if something has managed to keep getting cited after centuries, it probably indicates it has some value and merit, and I'd appreciate if you'd not imply I'm irrational, that you can't understand 'how any rational person could believe in such things' strikes me as a problem you should be seeking to address, because a pretty good chunk of the people most would regard as champions of reason believe or believed in such things, and I'm not sure how the breakdown goes amongst scientists but I don't know many in my own field of physics who consider religion at paradox with science and reason, regardless of their own beliefs or lack thereof, and maybe it's field arrogance but while we claim no monopoly on the faculty of reason we're generally considered to have more than our fair share of it. Even when I was an atheist, and later an agnostic, I never considered those who weren't to be prone to being irrational or possessed of impaired reasoning abilities, if you think that's the case, I'd respectfully submit you should re-evaluate either your definition of 'rational' or your definition of 'religion', and barring that at the very least I'd appreciate if you'd have the courteousy not to lob insults at religion when I did not invoke it as part of my comments, but again only mentioned it when someone also threw a slur at it.


Religion and science are not "separate magisteria" or anything of the sort. The failure of many scientists to realize this is generally because of compartmentalization, i.e. the idea that the scientific method and other related principles only apply in certain domains. In fact, they apply to all truth claims. (See http://lesswrong.com/lw/i8/religions_claim_to_be_nondisprovable/ and http://lesswrong.com/lw/gv/outside_the_laboratory/ for more thorough explanations of this, for starters.)

Let's be quantitative about how scientists differ in belief from the general population. We are many, many times more likely to be atheists, non-religious, or express doubts about religion than the general population. In the US, one estimate is that 30% of scientist are atheists, vs. maybe 2% of the general population who are atheists. 50% of scientists are without religious affiliation, vs. 16% of the general population. Only 36% of scientists state an explicit belief in God. See http://www.opposingviews.com/i/growing-number-of-scientists-are-atheists for more statistics (and note that the data was gathered by someone attempting to argue the opposite point, that scientists generally are religious.)

The idea that religion deserves "courtesy" is nonsense. No belief deserves protection from criticism. Also, "irrational" is a word with a specific meaning, not just a general insult.

As a side note, the entire paragraph I quoted contains only 2 periods. That is a serious barrier to readability.
Reply to message
New York Senate approves same-sex marriage - 25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM 1234 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 07:40:52 AM 408 Views
Re: Federalism is so fucking slow. *NM* - 25/06/2011 02:47:11 PM 246 Views
I'm actually not opposed to this. - 25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM 596 Views
Makes sense to me. - 25/06/2011 04:00:07 PM 784 Views
I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection. - 25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM 589 Views
There are two reasons, depending on ones position on the issue. - 25/06/2011 06:04:27 PM 639 Views
Meh, you never know. - 26/06/2011 12:58:37 AM 734 Views
so in your only Catholics are really married? - 26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM 594 Views
Church Doctrine. - 26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM 716 Views
That is simply not true - 26/06/2011 08:20:59 AM 653 Views
Yes it is. - 26/06/2011 05:14:29 PM 668 Views
That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church. - 26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM 611 Views
Yeah okay... - 26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM 653 Views
Are you sure about this? - 30/06/2011 04:47:57 PM 513 Views
Dragonsoul is wrong - 01/07/2011 09:21:43 AM 665 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 25/06/2011 04:05:15 PM 230 Views
Seems fine to me - 25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM 585 Views
Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM 719 Views
Direct democracy is the only true democracy. *NM* - 26/06/2011 01:01:26 AM 250 Views
Sometimes it is grand not being a True Scottsman *NM* - 26/06/2011 08:21:49 AM 240 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM 664 Views
Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right. - 26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM 580 Views
I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM 251 Views
Then you're a rare person. *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:36:11 AM 252 Views
After a number of years of gay marriage - 26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM 563 Views
That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example - 26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM 585 Views
People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law - 28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM 578 Views
I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious - 28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM 623 Views
I admit I wasn't replying to you directly - 29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM 580 Views
I think you should give this subject a bit more thought - 29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM 625 Views
I'll address the bulk of this later - 29/06/2011 07:58:48 PM 504 Views
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM 684 Views
Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational - 30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM 750 Views
I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM 1148 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM 762 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM 1030 Views
We're gonna have to pick this up another time - 01/07/2011 04:37:25 AM 599 Views
No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational. - 30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM 611 Views
Fair Enough - 01/07/2011 04:32:44 AM 656 Views
Btw, in case you were wondering, I do like you - 01/07/2011 02:17:42 PM 664 Views
Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM* - 25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM 259 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 11:41:30 PM 236 Views
So, fifth time is a charm? - 26/06/2011 06:38:26 AM 699 Views

Reply to Message