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The same people who pay for everyone else whose actions render them vegetables. Joel Send a noteboard - 06/07/2011 01:50:20 AM
resulted in his becoming a vegetable? Do you really think that he would have been able to pay for it if he would have ended up in the hospital for months and rehab for months after that? Do you know how it effects the driver and passengers involved in an accident with a motorcycle? How it effects the witnesses? I am good with a helmet law.

If they can get insurance that would cover those possibilities then it is their business and their business only.

Either his insurance, if he had coverage and they couldn't find a way to drop him, or the state. However, the fact a LOT of people do dangerous things and others end up paying for all or most of their medical care should NOT be sufficient cause for society to dictate how they live their lives. That's not just a slippery slope, it's a slippery precipice leading to bans on junk food along with drugs (which of course includes drugs like nicotine and alcohol) and requiring annual physicals and regular exercise along with motorcycle helmets. Should people abstain from the former and participate in the latter? Unquestionably. Should society FORCE each member to do so simply to save itself money? Unquestionably not.

Maybe one day a majority will decide it's in societys best interest for everyone to vote Republican or become Muslim, and maybe they'll enforce that with appropriate legislation, but we won't be living in a free state anymore, we'll be slaves to popular opinion that prescribes and proscribes every facet of our very existence. After all, motorcycles are far more likely in general to be involved in accidents, and those accidents are more likely to result in serious injury when they occur, with a similar financial impact on the rest of the community, so why stop at requiring helmets when we should really just ban motorcycles entirely? For that matter, auto accidents kill tens of thousands annually and injure many more, but when two people walking bump into each other they rarely get more than a bruise, so why not ban all vehicles for the sake of the public good?

Like I said, it's hard to make a compelling case that allowing people to ride without helmets infringes on the rights of others more than requiring it infringes on theirs. Helmets restrict riders vision and hearing, so while they make accidents more survivable, they also make them more likely. Which of those risks is more desirable on balance is a judgement call, and I much prefer to leave judgement calls to the individuals directly involved than to a peripheral group likely to bear some indirect medical cost regardless. If I happen to be one of the people trapped in a burning car by a seatbelt that won't release or crushed when it rolls and my seatbelt prevented me being thrown clear, the fact that requiring them lowers societys indirect medical cost OVERALL won't be much comfort to me, and I shouldn't be required to sacrifice my life for their bottom line. My body, my life, my choice, a concept NY seems to grasp fairly well in other areas, but apparently not this one. It's hard on witnesses when a bungy jumpers cord snaps or a sky divers parachute doesn't open, too, but I don't think that reason enough to ban either, even with the extra costs their otherwise unnecessary medical care can inflict on the community. That doesn't mean I don't think both are dangerously foolish, it simply means I don't demand the right to stop everyone else from doing anything I think dangerously foolish.
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This message last edited by Joel on 06/07/2011 at 01:58:03 AM
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You can't make this stuff up: Helmet law protester dies in crash - 05/07/2011 08:47:14 PM 1078 Views
Kinda undermines his protest *NM* - 05/07/2011 09:01:50 PM 322 Views
Just a tad bit *NM* - 05/07/2011 09:06:24 PM 307 Views
How so? He wasn't demanding the right to survive crashes when only a helmet makes that possible. - 05/07/2011 11:06:44 PM 708 Views
New York feels that people should have to wear helmets for their own safety - 05/07/2011 11:20:36 PM 671 Views
He felt his own safety was his own concern. - 06/07/2011 12:07:05 AM 605 Views
Who do you think would have ended up paying for his care for the rest of his life if the accident - 06/07/2011 01:08:49 AM 761 Views
The same people who pay for everyone else whose actions render them vegetables. - 06/07/2011 01:50:20 AM 887 Views
Maybe a more effective argument you could use against me would be pointing out - 06/07/2011 02:33:21 AM 677 Views
Yeah, that is a better example. - 06/07/2011 03:03:01 AM 645 Views
Oops, ignore! *NM* - 06/07/2011 11:44:10 PM 385 Views
Now, who said irony wasn't funny? *NM* - 05/07/2011 09:22:58 PM 442 Views
what a fricking idiot - 05/07/2011 10:02:17 PM 840 Views
That's your opinion to which you're entitled. - 05/07/2011 11:19:36 PM 1103 Views
Anarchy, baby! *NM* - 06/07/2011 12:58:23 AM 547 Views
Uh Joel... - 06/07/2011 03:38:24 AM 713 Views
Sorry, but that doesn't make sense - 06/07/2011 07:02:33 PM 907 Views
Yes it does - 06/07/2011 07:32:54 PM 657 Views
how many people are really seriously injured that way? - 06/07/2011 07:15:16 PM 878 Views
Did you actually read my post? - 06/07/2011 07:36:13 PM 786 Views
my ex had 3 cracked ribs from an accident like that - 07/07/2011 02:46:07 AM 812 Views
Re: That's your opinion to which you're entitled. - 06/07/2011 05:18:12 PM 866 Views
Re: That's your opinion to which you're entitled. - 06/07/2011 06:13:44 PM 938 Views
Hold the phone here... - 06/07/2011 07:49:10 PM 1096 Views
+1 *NM* - 06/07/2011 08:42:14 PM 384 Views
You agree with him that the abortion debate is about a mothers convenience versus the babys life? - 06/07/2011 10:48:52 PM 788 Views
im not bringing abortion into this, its a separate issue *NM* - 06/07/2011 10:56:17 PM 376 Views
It's really not. - 07/07/2011 12:20:10 AM 809 Views
i'm really not - 07/07/2011 03:34:23 PM 899 Views
What else could the debate be about? - 06/07/2011 10:58:51 PM 731 Views
"The babys life", not just "life". - 07/07/2011 12:18:02 AM 1059 Views
I think I could make that up. *NM* - 05/07/2011 11:41:00 PM 330 Views
Smartass *NM* - 06/07/2011 12:57:22 AM 329 Views
Helmets help save lives. 'Onest. - 07/07/2011 04:40:42 PM 824 Views

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